#137 – Their Taxpayer Dollars

6 05 2010

The bogan hates tax. It will go to remarkable lengths to concoct a system of cash jobs, shifty accountants, and bald-faced lies in order to minimise the amount of money that it contributes to sustain the nation of which it is so proud. However, when political correctness goes mad, the nanny state will often catch the bogan out and make it pay something approximating a fair amount of tax. After briefly considering getting Slater & Gordon to take their case to the Maxtreme Court, the bogan realises that cooperating with the intellectual at the Australian Taxation Office is not as horrifying as initially thought.

Now that the bogan has paid some tax, it is entitled to demand (via its trusted news sources) that the entire Federal budget is dedicated solely to supporting and magnifying its boganity. The bogan is not racist, but a government plan to spend millions of the bogan’s taxpayer dollars on getting Aboriginal life expectancy to within 10 years of the rest of Australia is unacceptable to the non-aboriginal bogan. This stance is confirmed later that night, when the bogan sees a cheerful Ernie Dingo in perfect health on its plasma screen. At this point, the bogan will announce to the others in the room that the government does indeed need to be sacked.

But it’s not just that bogans want the federal budget to be entirely geared towards bogans, each bogan wants the budget to be all about its own agenda for the coming months. This can range from demands to inexplicably double the baby bonus (despite its bumper sticker vowing that Australia is full), crank up the first homeowner’s grant to exacerbate an asset bubble, or reward a moronic facebook group that wants another one-off $900 just because. They’re the bogan’s taxpayer dollars, dammit, and the bogan wants them returned to its bank account in exponential quantities.

While the bogan has no concept of the administrative and other costs of running a first world democracy, it has a intuitive sense of when it is being ripped off. The stamp duty on its McMansion is absurdly high, and it’s definitely not related to the enormous infrastructure expense of yet another sprawling and inefficient housing estate on the urban fringe, subsidised by non-bogans. The bogan’s taxpayer dollars demand a train station, a free school, and Krispy Kreme within a 3 minute drive of wherever it chooses to construct its 40 square glass cube. And the first homeowner’s grant should be extended to all homeowners to instantly make homes cheaper. And now that there’s no remaining agricultural land within 70km of a capital city, food is too expensive. The bogan’s taxpayer dollars require that the government “does something” that allows the bogan to continue existing entirely separate from the consequences of its actions.


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302 responses

6 05 2010
Timmy Dee

At least we haven’t QUITE reached the point of throwing (without actually knowing what it fully entails) the term SOCALISM around like the c-bomb, like they have in the States.

Pretty sad consolation point, really.

6 05 2010
Benamin

Spotted this the other day in another forum. It seems to come from http://www.nixonthehand.com/category/government/.

US centric, but mostly transferable and vaguely related, so I thought I’d share it here.

“This morning I awoke to the sound of my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the Public Power Monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather would be like today using satellites designed, built and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I did this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking drugs determined safe by the Federal Drug Administration.

At a time that has been kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I got into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on roads built and maintained by local, state and federal departments of transportation. I checked my mail delivered by the US Postal Service and dropped the kids of at public school, then stopped for fuel of a quality regulated by the Environmental Protection Agency.

After work I drove my NHTSA car on DOT roads back home, which has not burned down because of state and local building codes and a fire marshal’s inspection. My house has not been plundered in my absence because of the local police department.

I then log onto the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post here on AWE, in freerepublic.com and of course the Fox News forums about how socialized health care is bad because the government can’t do anything right.”

6 05 2010
dizzy

fantastic =D

6 05 2010
Nicole

love it!! I have a friend whose aim is to not pay tax, and when I started on a list similar to this (schools, medicare, roads…) he literally walked away as no response. wanker!

6 05 2010
Brimstone

Yeah, this is NOTHING. I’m the expat American and I haven’t heard any bogan saying ‘MY TAX DOLLARS shouldn’t go to pay for YOUR HEALTHCARE’. and none of them seem willing to join Tea Party type organizations and protect their rights with force

6 05 2010
pb

yes, i am glad that your country’s particular brand of anti-government crazy hasn’t managed to get a foothold here

6 05 2010
Brimstone

i do wish there was more opposition to the Internet filter
I’m willing to defend unrestricted Internet

6 05 2010
Shirley M

I’m under the impression that the opposition to the internet filter is quite substantial.

6 05 2010
Benamin

Yes and no… We’re a confused lot.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australia#Opinion_Polling

Both interesting and a bit scary.

6 05 2010
James

They are probably too busy downloading maxxtreme internet porn to raise their profile.

6 05 2010
Tony D

It’s opposed by people who actually take the time to think about things (eg the non-bogan). Unfortunately the rest of Australia hear the Conroy’s A Current Affair-like cries of “WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!” and fall for it hook line and sinker.

6 05 2010
Andrew

Well I’m against the filter… But what you said doesn’t state your position. You wish that there where more people who agreed with you, so you could argue with them…

6 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

I heard that they dropped it like a hot political potato due to it being Election year( I like to call it erection year, but that is another post all together.

6 05 2010
miss dahl

Comparing the Australian bogan with a US Tea Party denizen aka “teabagger” … well, I understand that teabaggers are extreme-Rightwing republicans that like to carry their guns openly and have a particular psycho-religious bent to them that cannot be underestimated. Bogans do not seem to be similarly afflicted. The bogan has a particularly ego-centric sense of what politics (and everything else for that matter) and an enormous sense of entitlement, or, “what can I get from them for free”. As for any argument that centres on not paying tax, well just take a look at what decades of that has done to the Greek economy.

6 05 2010
Guido

Well, not paying taxes and socialist policies which gave state employees (which were the majority of the population) cushy jobs, inflated salaries and early state-sponsored retirement.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

Guido (11:19:52) – I would also argue that this is one of the drawbacks of a common currency. It’s actually rational, in a sense, for them to run up massive debts if they know the other economic union members *have to* bail them out.

12 05 2010
Mavis

“cushy jobs, inflated salaries and early state-sponsored retirement” – sounds like Canberra.

7 05 2010
Johnno

LOL miss dahl. Please read more widely before being suckered into the belief that Tea-Party attendies are ‘extremists’ or ‘right-wing’, let alone ‘republicans’. You really are gullible.

6 05 2010
urbanreverie

Brimstone – if you’ve ever had the “pleasure” (cough cough) of finding yourself among a bunch of Young Liberals, as I have on a couple of unfortunate occasions, you’d realise that such anti-social attitudes aren’t completely absent in Australia. Just that those “bugger you, I’m all right Jack” attitudes don’t usually come from the redneck/bogan sector of society, but the scions of the elite and the lucky.

7 05 2010
Brimstone

‘bugger you, I’m all right Jack’? is that the equivalent of America’s ‘Fuck you, i’ve got mine’?

it seems like there’s nobody here in a position to dismantle the welfare state… thank Dog for that

10 12 2010
rilla

democracy is a euphenism for socialism.

6 05 2010
struct

A+

6 05 2010
Lol-plates

What ever happened to giving to ceaser what is ceasers?

But the government needs to stop pissing away money on silly things, collins class submarines? 2nd hand Abrams tanks that need an army of technitians to service?

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s…”. Please, unless you have a higher degree in the Classics, do not attempt classical (or even Biblical) allusions.

6 05 2010
Lol-plates

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s” but i don’t like the KJ :P, NASV all the way! Or The Message 😛

6 05 2010
Will S

If English was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me.

6 05 2010
Lol-plates

I don’t have the brain power to learn ancient greek and then make a translation from the originals. let alone ancient hewbrew and then have a crack at translation, a mate of mine did a masters of theology and said that ancient hewbrew is one of the only languages that gets harder as you get more advanced.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

Fiona of Toorak (09:20:01) said: “Please, unless you have a higher degree in the Classics, do not attempt classical (or even Biblical) allusions.”

What kind of K-mart college includes english mistranslations of the Bible in its course? Even Broadmeadows TAFE would not indulge in such pointlessness.

29 12 2010
Ash - Maxxtreme To The Maxx

I learnt that from Asterix.

29 12 2010
James Hunter

I thought that came from King Publius the one who fought in the Pubic wars ?

29 12 2010
Ash - Maxxtreme To The Maxx

Wouldn’t have a clue, JH, for I do not have a higher degree in the Classics like Our Fi.

I have (gasp!) half of a lesser degree in (gasp!) Media Studies. Which leads to a fair amount of my bogan insight, combined with my upbringing in Wooloware.

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. It’s so ironic that I am quite happy to subsidise the bogan lifestyle (as it keeps them well away from me).

Yet I pay more tax each year than an entire outer suburb of them!

Note: collective noun for bogans: “outer suburb”.

6 05 2010
Shirley M

I thought we had decided the collective noun for bogans was ‘collective noun’?

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. As the most obviously qualified to coin the term, I’ve reminted it to “outer suburb”.

6 05 2010
Shirley M

Sorry Fiona, but I think it lacks originality and shan’t be adding it to my personal lexicon.

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. I shall just assume you live in an outer suburb, hence your reluctance to subscribe to my superior view.

6 05 2010
Shirley M

Assume away, darling.

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. I assure you I shall most assuredly assume.

6 05 2010
Shirley M

Your assurances are unnecessary, dear lady. I am well aware of your mad assumption skills.

6 05 2010
James

In any case, since when does a mere M.St qualify one to coin anything? Perhaps in a dinner party conversation, but outside that… And while I may live in an inferior suburb, my superior education does qualify me to make such a statement.

6 05 2010
the trav

As discussed previously Fi, income/tax bracket does not define you level of boganess.

Bogs love Toorak especially St Georges Rd aka the Rat Run, quickest and easiest way to avoid the tolls on Citilink.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

the trav (10:03:38) said: “As discussed previously Fi, income/tax bracket does not define you level of boganess. ”

Income/tax bracket may not define boganity, but bragging about either most assuredly does.

6 05 2010
vivisection

I like a “Westfield of bogans” myself. Or a “Sunrise of bogans”

6 05 2010
pb

a logie of bogans, perhaps?

6 05 2010
Peter

I’m sticking with a gunt of bogans because it was my idea so there.

6 05 2010
James

You should make a formal claim to that term via urbandictionary.com.

6 05 2010
Dan

A sunrise of bogans – gets my vote.

8 05 2010
PD

How about a “food court of bogans”

8 05 2010
Sam

A “grandstand of bogans”?

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

Fiona of Toorak (09:17:09) said : Yet I pay more tax each year than an entire outer suburb of them!

It’s a uniquely aspirational, nouveau-bogue thing to claim to pay a lot of tax. Anyone with any real wealth would employ suitably qualified lawyers and accountants to ensure they don’t pay any tax.

Paying lots of tax screams CUB or mediocre middle-management.

6 05 2010
James Hunter

So devils advocate,
you say you believe people should not pay tax, then this puts you squarly in the sights of todays topic.

6 05 2010
the trav

Tax Avoidance = Illegal
Tax Minimisation = legal

Boges tend to do the former.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

James Hunter (13:42:12), the trav has already covered it below, so I’ll just say that you should catch up or otherwise get a clue, champ.

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. Missed the point once again da. After minimising my legal obligations to a maxxtreme minimum, I find myself in the position I described above.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

Nice try, Toorak, but too little too late. You have already admitted to being slap-bang in the mediocre centre of slightly-above-average income earners who earn enough to pay tax but not enough to pay someone to effectively minimise it. You are the government’s cash cow and the bleating heart of taxpaying bogandom.

Now go and subsidise some bogan babies like the nice little denizen of the 40 per cent bracket that you most assuredly are.

6 05 2010
Tubesteak

DA your ignorance is a beacon to all those around.

As an employed professional in the tax minimisation field who has completed tax returns for billionaires and their associated entities I can assure you they do pay some amount of tax in one form or another either personally or through the associated entities.

Even if they try to hide it offshore they are caught by the attribution rules.

You are an epic failure

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. He seems to have little experience outside his own narrow world and can’t seem to understand I live outside it. I guess that explains his obsession with me too.

6 05 2010
James Hunter

Fi,
I think that more accurately the only person that he is truly obsessed with is himself. ?

6 05 2010
Benamin

That’s a bit cowardly Fiona.

If you’re going to attack him, do it yourself. Don’t just “Me Too” when someone else poses an argument.

7 05 2010
devil's advocate

Fiona of Toorak (17:56:27) : “LOL. He seems to have little experience outside his own narrow world and can’t seem to understand I live outside it.”

The only thing you live outside of is the CBD. Most likely Broadmeadows. If only you truly did live in Toorak, there would be some hope that the better graces of the middle-high income earners might rub of on you.

Or, at least you’d be in a position to observe them closely enough to do a more entertaining job of faking being one of them.

7 05 2010
Tinnish Lij

Unless your M. Packer with his Keating-sponsored Bahamian tax haven. (Is that the correct descriptor for something related to the bahamas?) Anyway until you can get the ATO to create a specific tax law for yourself (and successors of course) you will always be hovering within sight of the middle classes. Sorry Fiona, mais c’est la vie.

7 05 2010
devil's advocate

Packer is probably not the best example as he (they) are boganity personified.
But I agree with the overall sentiment. Those with delusions of granduer as to their tax planning prowess would do well to note.

6 05 2010
Eve Wolken

After I finished university I was on the rock’n’roll for 6 months. I actually got to know my Centrelink advisor (Cody) pretty well and rather ironically found me a job at the ATO. At the end of my first week at the ATO I went back to the Centrelink office to say thanks. Unbeknownst to me at the time my skirt was hitched in my underpants. I asked Cody out but she said no.

7 05 2010
J

How about a “Working Family of Bogans”?

10 12 2010
rilla

seriously… “Yet I pay more tax each year than an entire outer suburb of them!”
are you here to troll us with your nonsense? or just insult bogans? Toorak? So you live in that place where the median price just hit the 1901 value – awesome. I’d sell up now, shouldn’t you be on an estate or something? always talking like old money… I think it’s convict stock shame missy 🙂

10 12 2010
rilla

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL – I mean why would you even be in australia? let alone Toorak? if you were genuinely wealthy… south of France, greek islands, rome etc… these are nice places you can fuck off to 🙂

6 05 2010
Benamin

“And the first homeowner’s grant should be extended to all homeowners to instantly make homes cheaper”

Hilarious. Thanks guys!

6 05 2010
Shirley M

Is there seriously a facebook group re: more free $900 bonuses? Or did you just make that up? It’s getting harder and harder to distinguish the truth from the satire.

6 05 2010
Caitlin

Sadly this is true. “K-Rudd, I think we are due for another $900!” currently has 123,362 members crying out for some free money.

6 05 2010
Shirley M

I just checked it out, and I found this particularly perplexing:

Under the title, “Why are we doing this?” it states, “We believe part of being an Aussie means you have a right to free speech!”

So, part of being an Aussie is having the right to beg for free money?

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. “Part of”? Surely “quintessential” is the right word? At least in terms of the people who we’re talking about.

6 05 2010
Shirley M

And this, for the groups administrator:

“Seen as though we are probably the largest, most “Aussie” group on Facebook….”

GET FARKED! What is wrong with people?

6 05 2010
pb

yes, i saw both of those things on there. as to what is wrong with them, they’re bogans, so surely that is enough reason.

6 05 2010
James

There is neither an implied not formal right to free speech in Australia. Typical bogan ignorance.

6 05 2010
Bag O'Turnips

They would indeed ask, especially if the super profits tax for mining gets up: the bogan sense of entitlement will really be jacked up then and they’d demand another $900. Buggered be infrastructure, health services or social welfare.

These are the true dumb acolytes of free-market narcissism, the ones who are a solid case for the negative in the (sometimes spurious) argument of Freedom of Choice. And coming from a mining state (WA), amongst that rabble there’s the misplaced idea that somehow we’re propping up the rest of the country.

Maybe if the mining companies payed a suitable tax for operating in and exploiting the minerals of a First World democracy, then maybe the Sandgropers could (rightfully, natch self-righteously) stake that claim. But they don’t, so I believe most my fellow Wassies (especially the rightwingnut secessionists and affiliated CUBs) are full of shit.

6 05 2010
Lol-plates

Free money… I love *free* money
Sorta like the Fujitsu free money ad they air during the v8’s. Damn I can get $300 FREE money if I buy an airconditioner 😛

7 05 2010
Julia

$900 says its membership comprises the same mob that bitch about how Rudd accidentally the economy.

6 05 2010
pb

there is one, sadly. there are facebook groups for just about everything. just looking at the groups my friends are in, i’ve come across ‘thank god that fart was silent’, ‘i hiss at the sun when i step into broad daylight’, ‘rrs – rowdy rally support’, ‘4 minute showers? it takes 10 mintues to get the temperature right’, nad ‘ i hate last resort undies’. and here is the $900 group: http://www.facebook.com/search/?post_form_id=250005f4976d0210c6d45e4ca7e9a992&q=%24900%20rudd&init=quick&ref=search_loaded#!/pages/K-Rudd-I-think-we-are-due-for-another-900/105078799526280?ref=search&sid=845915275.369937378..1

6 05 2010
Will S
6 05 2010
Joyce Lowenstein

Jean Baudrillard was right.

6 05 2010
vivisection

Off this topic , but facebook site related. I had previously in my Profile Interests list the fact that I collect “old racist, sexist and child beating paraphanalia” (I love old politically incorrect pulp fiction, kids books, images etc). Anyway, new facebook changes have since linked my page to a “Child Beating” group. Claiming that they are interested in creating a community interested in Child Beating and they would like my input! Of course I clicked the link immediately and found 4 other members! Dear God!

6 05 2010
vivisection

here is message from Facebook
“Our goal is to make this Community Page the best collection of shared knowledge on this topic. If you have a passion for Child Beating, sign up and we’ll let you know when we’re ready for your help. You can also get us started by suggesting a relevant Wikipedia article or the Official Site.”

7 05 2010
Sten

Love it! Thanks for the laugh, Viv.

6 05 2010
A-Bomb

Isn’t the reason that the Government’s response to the Henry Review was so half-arsed because of the outer-suburban bogan? Don’t change negative gearing coz thenI’ll have to do something more complicated with my investment than “bricks n’ mortar”, don’t fiddle with the GST coz then big tv’s will cost more…etc
…and don’t you dare use my taxpayer dollars to pay for some abtract public art…

6 05 2010
pb

true. the bogan jealously defends its right to complain about the government changing things just as strongly as it defends its right to compain about the government doing nothing.

6 05 2010
Dan

Why should government’s pay for public art? If you like symbols, then buy them and put them around your own house, but don’t expect me to pay for your lighthorse exchange hairy plastic poles etc.

6 05 2010
Mitch-Jay

I think we should outlay tax payer dollars to fix out appalling internet infrastructure, Anyone else tried buying a ticket to splendour this morning….

6 05 2010
Brimstone

they are, but they’ll be crippling it with the Filter

6 05 2010
Grass Mud Horse

Once again, too true. I’m simultaneously chuckling and fighting the urge to be violently ill

6 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

I get that all the time Grass Mud Horse…It’s such an odd feeling…I call it boganitis. It’ll pass… 😉

6 05 2010
Benamin

As we’re nearing an election, I’m pretty sure that this one will pass, and be replaced by the only election issue that will matter to bogans.

Interest Rates.

Kevin is stuffed. Nice knowing you mate.

6 05 2010
Will S

Don’t forget asylum seekers!

6 05 2010
Benamin

Even that will be a non-issue by comparison IMO.

6 05 2010
Sten

I beg to differ. We all know the reason interest rates are so high is because these bloody immigrants and reffos are coming over here and buying up all out McMansions!

At least, that’s what the Bogues will think. Either way, the Bogan Party will win this election, as it has every other one.

6 05 2010
Benamin

I think you may give the bogan more credit than they deserve.

I reckon they are simpler than that, and will vote for the party that they believe will give them personally the most (regardless as to who or what the bogan may choose to outwardly blame for the situation). Hence my belief in the importance of interest rates, which directly affect a lot of bogans who are carrying a lot of debt to fund their McMansions and investment properties.

I guess the fact that the current state of interest rates is nearing “normality” and indicative of the relatively good financial health of the country makes this both sad and hilarious at the same time.

6 05 2010
martin

You overestimate the bogan’s sense of patriotism. The bogan is only patriotic when they stand to make money out of it. All the bogans I know who are paying off a house want mass immigration so their house prices goes up.

Kind of like how libtards like mass immigration because the immigrants usually don’t study arts.

6 05 2010
ExtremeBoganHunter

Let’s not go overboard with that idea Will.

6 05 2010
Will S

Rudd’s really leaking popularity lately.

6 05 2010
martin

Rudd’s a maggot. I can’t believe he’s managed to make of all people Tony Abbott look on occassion vaguely appealing.

6 05 2010
Jason

Great article once again, except: stamp duty in South Australia *is* absurdly high. At least, compared to the other states.

6 05 2010
Sheikyerbouti

You forget that when the bogan uses “cash jobs, shifty accountants, and bald-faced lies” to reduce its taxable income, it then finds that it cannot prove enough income to get a regular home loan for their McMansion.
It therefore needs a low-doc loan with higher interest rates, in order to draw down 100% of the loan amount to ensure that only the second loungeroom and formal dining room are left unfurnished due to lack of “2 year interest free” deals, not the 6 bedrooms.
It gets this loan when rates are at a 40-year low.
Then when rates go up by .5%, it experiences mortgage stress, as all it’s spare cash went into the 3rd plasma (the one in the kitchen). It demands the government “does something,” and blames all the immigrants…

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

It will be hilarious if the RBA raises the OCR during the election – Stevens was accused of being political in the last election for taking that step, what will they say now? “Well, even though you did the exact same thing when Howard was in office, this time it’s POLITICAL!”

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

I don’t think it’s fair to single out the bogan for hating tax. The only difference between the bogans and the rest is that the rest have the sense to either a) figure out ways of legally reducing the tax they pay and/or b) pay someone skilled in that art to do it for them.

The closest the bogan has ever come to tax planning is “negatively geared investment properties” which (allowing for the fact that negative gearing is a misnomer in itself) is really is just the bogan subsidising someone elses existence anyway. And even then negative gearing is as actively decried as it is subscribed.

Whether it’s handing over a case of toohey’s new, the official currency of the beer economy, or incorporating a professional services/management company in the caymans, it’s only the how that changes, the what/why stays the same.

Disliking tax is not something unique to the bogan, but the demented logic of simultaneously not wanting to pay tax but wanting massive handouts from the government carries with it the pungent stench of boganity. TBL

6 05 2010
Benamin

Not all of us hate tax.

The government does lots of necessary stuff, even taking into account the waste. I happily chip in my share.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

I’m probably a bit ambivalent and possibly compromised in my views on tax. On the one hand, in my younger days, I made a killing helping wealthier people avoid it.

On the other hand, I pay precisely the amount of tax that I am legally required to pay (and not a dollar more).

I probably neither like nor hate it, I just see it as a legal compliance obligation like any other.

6 05 2010
Guido

I minimise like any good person should, but I accept it’s an obligation to pay.

However, when I see my taxes handed out to CUB’s $900 at a time or otherwise wasted in the BER revolution, insulation scheme, or some other social spending designed to achieve a socio-political goal (which it will inevitably fail to achieve) I reserve my right to complain about where my hard earned taxes gets spent.

6 05 2010
Benamin

“I reserve my right to complain about where my hard earned taxes gets spent.”

That’s an absolutely fair comment.

However, I’m a little less concerned about the waste. There is waste and bad management in any large organisation; it’s a fact of life and there is nothing I can do to change it. Changing governments just means a different bent to those same wastes and excesses. So I try not to worry about it.

I think that the bad spending you mention is only a small portion of where my tax money goes:

http://www.budget.gov.au/2009-10/content/overview/html/overview_40.htm

So, I’m willing to accept that which I cannot change.

The $900 grant is indeed a big spend, but my hope is that by giving it to bogans (rampant consumers) it goes round and round the system collecting tax as it passes from hand to hand. Anyone with an economics background care to comment?

6 05 2010
James

No.

6 05 2010
Benamin

Can you elaborate? I’m a reasonable kind of guy and can handle correction.

6 05 2010
James

I didn’t mean to correct you Ben, I meant more that I have a background in economics, but do not wish to comment. In any case, now I will.

I think that was the reasoning behind the way the money was handed out – give it to people who will waste it, and it will get pumped into the economy. Unfortunately, a lot of it went out of the country, and one’s opinion on what effect this could have largely depends on one’s stance on globalisation. If you think that globalisation is good, and that there are overall gains to be made by stimulating economic activity globally, then it is good. If you take a more parochial view of economics and globalisation, then it is not so good, as it did little to stimulate economic activity in Australia outside the retail sector, which in any case takes only a small slice (comparatively) of the money spent.

Now you see why I initially did not want to comment – because when I talk economics, I get boring very quickly.

6 05 2010
Benamin

I don’t think you need to worry about being boring. If it educates, it’s fine by me.

Thanks for your comments. Personally I’d be concerned that something that was supposedly designed to stimulate the local economy would send a significant proportion of cash outside it.

Another possible take. I tend to believe that a lot of economic activity is based on confidence (or at least appears to be). If consumer confidence appears to be up (increased consumer spending) then others may believe that things are improving and loosen their purse strings.

Conversely I guess that if enough people believe there will be a recession, there will be one as they change their actions to reflect their belief.

I think it’s time for a visit to the library.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

I’ll just point out that the “leakage” argument was why everyone was so keen to ensure that the response to the GFC was coordinated among countries in the economic region. Each country’s leakage was another’s windfall. Just so happens that we have a massive trade deficit.

6 05 2010
James Hunter

Ben,
Never believe an economist !
They are the only people who get a degree without studying any facts. Their course consists of studying failed theories and theories about to fail.
If in doubt go figure who gave us the great economic crisis the world is just recovering from

Another point for the readers is if you want to see the results of systemic tax avoidence. Look at Greece.

6 05 2010
James

“Their course consists of studying failed theories and theories about to fail.”

Your insight startles me sometime, JH. What a succinct summary of the field of economics.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

Um, it’s arguable that the GFC was a result of people failing to observe economic theory. For example, to describe the actions of US homeowners, see “moral hazard”. To describe the failure of the market to understand the risks associated with securitized loans, see “information assymetry”.

The subsequent bailouts, and the long-run effects, also run the risk of creating “moral hazard”.

6 05 2010
James

Perhaps, da, but I would caution you to learn the lessons of history when it comes to economics, and to remember that economics is political, not scientific.

History shows a succession of economic theories being tried and failing – from serfdom and feudalism, through mercantilism and liberalism and socialism and Keynesian economics. What makes you think that neoliberalism is any different?

6 05 2010
Tubesteak

James Hunter
Being someone with a thorough background in economics (as well as tax), I know that the GFC wasn’t caused by economists or any sort of failure by the markets. The GFC is the natural result of the prevailing economic excesses of the years (and arguably, decades) preceding it.

No-one complained when things were good and any leader knew it would have been political suicide to put the brakes on (no matter how necessary it was to do so).

The people have gotten what they deserved and will be punished again when it happens again.

A satisfying over-simplification, but an over-simplification nonetheless. The root cause was unsustainable greed in both the consumer and financial sectors, but the arcane bundling of CDOs and other derivative instruments helped to conceal many of the problems from view until they were jumbo sized. And yeah, many countries will be suffering the burdon of deleveraging for years, but they still won’t truly learn their lesson. TBL

28 05 2010
Frazer

Surely, the main purpose of economics is to analyse past trends and attempt to find relationships. Given that it isn’t a science, the powers of prediction are seriously limited and should be avoided.
My view is that economists try and fix or alleviate problems. Stating that economists caused the GFC is tantamount to blaming your local Dr for getting sick. Or are you lumping Wall street and economists togethor?

6 05 2010
Peter of Kensington

James, you missed the most important factor; speed. The handout was never meant to be an efficient stimulus (i.e. leakage’, savings and debt repayments were inevitable/acceptable). It was, however, meant to work fast.

It achieved this aim.

6 05 2010
James

Good point Peter. It did bridge the gap between the immediate response that was required, and the longer time frame that the infrastructure package was looking at.

6 05 2010
Peter of Kensington

Correct.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

James (14:55:31) asked: What makes you think that neoliberalism is any different?

Because it strikes a balance between relying on people’s incentives to produce sound outcomes, subject to the provision of public goods and giving the unemployed and downtrodden *just* enough to stop them rioting in the streets. For the most part.

Not saying it’s the best system – also the provision of public goods that people have discussed above is subject to the inherent short-termism or myopia of a 3 year electoral cycle.

China has a more-or-less centrally planned system, they seem to be doing ok in an economic sense.

8 05 2010
albert

The stimulus was a waste of money – a loan designed to prop up morons who could not previously fathom debts cannot be continuously accumulated.

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. Oh James, don’t be silly. You get boring very quickly no matter what you’re talking about.

6 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

If only they would put all that money into real social welfare. The support groups (Anglicare et al;) would be able to provide real help to the people who need it. The growing divide between rich and poor is growing, and those who are truly below the poverty line are suffering. They can’t afford private services and the higher end services don’t cater to middle band group. There are kids out there who are abused not because of a parents inablity emotionaly to raise a child but financially are so poor that decent food is considered a luxury item. What about those kids? Where’s there plasma tv?

6 05 2010
pb

i don’t hate tax. i’d prefer to have public services and infrastructure than more money in my pocket and failing everything.

6 05 2010
Ryu

You obviously don’t live in Victoria.

But yes, tax is a necessary evil. I’d just like to see more actual results occasionally.

6 05 2010
pb

no, i live in sydney and put up with our woeful public transport (very glad they’ve now brought in the new ticketing system, but there’s not much else they’ve done of use in recent years) but things do still function.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

TBL said: “the demented logic of simultaneously not wanting to pay tax but wanting massive handouts from the government carries with it the pungent stench of boganity.”

Hrm. Good point. Having re-read the post in that more nuanced context, it is far more pursuasive.

So what of the minerals/resources industry? They have much the same mentality, which way does the causality run? Did they create an army of bogan mineworkers with an inflated sense of entitlement, or did the bogans infiltrate and assimilate the industry? Refer also: Clive Palmer.

6 05 2010
miss dahl

Just for fun: Who got $900 bonus and what did you spend it on?

6 05 2010
Guido

I did. It dumped it into my share portfolio. Which Rudd is now taking back by demonising the blue-chip miners.

6 05 2010
Sten

Poor darlings. I have not a scrap of sympathy for those fat cats. China still needs our coal and iron, even if it does come slightly more expensively.

6 05 2010
pb

agreed. those resources are still in our soil. and the sharemarket’s never an absolute certainty anyway.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

The resources profits tax won’t impact on the price of sea-borne iron ore. That is set by the market. It doubled 100% last 12 months so some p-ssy tax won’t affect anything.

6 05 2010
Peter

Mortgage, sorry boring I know.

6 05 2010
Benamin

Hardly boring. Sensible. Full marks.

6 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

Thanks dude.

6 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

Did you forget to change your name back Simon? hehehe

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

*blushes*

7 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

tee hee You’re funny.

6 05 2010
pb

i didn’t. i’ve spent most of my life being a student (am again at the moment) and i didn’t earn enough to qualify either time.

6 05 2010
James

It still sits in my bank to this day.

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. I didn’t qualify, of course.

6 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

Boring stuff…my credit card…but now I don’t have so “Thanks Ruddy”

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

miss dahl (11:18:09) asked: “Just for fun: Who got $900 bonus and what did you spend it on?”

I didn’t get it. I feel no need to indicate whether I earned too much or too little to qualify. However, i didn’t begrudge those who did, because by and large they dutifully p-ssed it up a wall on consumer crap and retail spending barely suffered a blip. It’s also a rare example of “G” (of C+I+G fame) being deployed in a timely manner and not feeding a boom.

It’s true what they say, in a recession everyone is a Keynsian.

6 05 2010
Ironhalo

The best thing about the prevalence of bogans in Australia is that they will do the job in removing this insane government from power for us. I don’t mind paying tax to a degree, but bogans HATE tax.

While I agree that big miners should have to pay a portion of their profits, the same should extend to other ‘super-profit’ organisations, such as banks, and in my recent experience the bloody wedding industry! 😀

At the end of the day, Rudd and his band of thieves have now decided, with all the swagger of a communist government that any company/industry that produces anything of value to society is ripe for pillaging at a rate which they decide. Well, when you’ve taken 80 billion of saved money and blown it, while taking our foreign debt from zero to ~$180 billion in barely two years, you need all the theft you can get.

On top of this ‘profit theft’, the internet filter, union payments ‘for the boys’ with the BER scheme, the failure of the insulation scheme, economic mismanagement, China-India relationship degradation, ETS shams, Fuel/Grocery Watch failures, NBN ‘jobs for the boys’ and now a complete failure to overhaul the tax system…this government can kiss our collective arse.

Thank god the bogans will seize on the ‘fuck off we’re full’ mantra and cost Labor the election due to the asylum seeker issue.

6 05 2010
Will S

Yes, but.

Tony Abbott.

6 05 2010
James

Aren’t we just spoiled for choice?

6 05 2010
Nelson Esq

Ironhalo, you forgot to mention the rorting of the nation building /school infrastructure plan, which is basically a Government sanctioned ponzi scheme of contracting sub-contractors who have sub-contracted to sub-sontractors. I couldn’t believe that 60 Minutes piece several weeks ago which revealled schools were getting buildings which they didn’t ask for, didn’t require and can’t use…

While the bogue may scream about their tax dollars being spent on detention centres for assylum seekers and whatever other outrage topic spewed forth by TT/ACA, everyone in this country, bogue and non-bogue, has the right to scream about the inept way the KRudd has spent, sorry wasted, everyone’s tax dollars.

The supertax on mining profits is purely a tax grab because KRUDD and the Duck have bankrupt the country!

6 05 2010
James Hunter

nelson the land owner,
are you a Liberal Party stooge?

6 05 2010
Bag O'Turnips

I think there was an element of a panicked response to the GFC: the Guvmint had to be seen to be doin’ sumpthin’ ‘bowd it—essential for the visually-oriented bogans.

This led to policy-on-the-run and hasty means of dispesing cash in things that could be tangible in a short timeframe, not to mention keeping CUB builders in a cashed-up state.

Yet these types have the cheek to complain when something has been done. But that’s what happens if you don’t plan adequately, i.e. beyond the next two election cycles. The tabloid meeja and their consumers (I cannot quite deign myself to call them readers or even viewers, given the way they ingest news) are bleedin’ hypocrites and must reap what they bleedin’ well sow.

12 05 2010
Andrea

Are you admitting to watching “60 Minutes”? On *purpose*?!?

6 05 2010
Bag O'Turnips

That zero net debt is a furphy. Instead of the Federal Government assuming debt for the provision of universal services and infrastructure—of which has been run into the ground through constantly operating at peak capacity by governments of both stripes the least quarter century—they have privatised debt. Personal indebtedness has spiralled in that same 25 year period. It was an act of cost-shifting, based on the flawed assumption that we are all utility-maximising individuals. A bogan one of these?!?

Clearly, that didn’t work. And now we try to catch up with long-avoided infrastructure by going further behind. So we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t by propping up a broken system and delaying our day of reckoning.

We can’t rely on our minerals forever, y’know, especially when this bidding war of consumption reaches a point of critical unsustainability.

6 05 2010
miss dahl

Yes, but does anybody really learn from it?

6 05 2010
Sheikyerbouti

I got it.
Donated it to charity.
People who needed it more than me got the use of it.
I got a tax deduction and therefore $300 in my pocket the next July.
Win-win.

6 05 2010
Annette

I did ! I put it on my mortgage (in Launceston). But a month later I had an inexplicable urge to purchase a 42 inch LCD HD TV. I can now refer to it as my very own Harvey Norman Stimulus Package 🙂

6 05 2010
vivisection

Conveniently mine arrived a few days before a trip to Japan! Sayonara !!

6 05 2010
Nat

Credit card… I thought lots of people used it to pay bills… I guess I was asking the right people!

6 05 2010
reparty

I got mine, pissed it up against the wall in my post-divorce single man in his late 30’s fun that was 2009. However, an interesting side note. When the $900 was just about to be forked out to the masses, I decided that I needed a television that was better than the $80 job I had. Dutifully, I dragged my girlfriend all over Brisbane to find one under $600 that was of reasonable quality. Ended up buying a nice sized Sony Bravia at Harvey Norman that was marked down $300…the reason for such a discount? The 40 Year Old Virgin told me they had to make room for all the new televisions that were coming in expectation of the massive fucking onslaught that was to come.

6 05 2010
urbanreverie

I used the bonus to go towards part of the price of a car. I was already saving up for one, so this meant I bought it a couple of months earlier than I otherwise would have.

That brings me onto an excellent possible TBL post … “#xxx: Not Saving”. The bogan seems to have a pathological aversion to putting money aside and watching it grow. Perhaps the bogan has an infantile inability to delay gratification, and wants (insert useless overpriced consumer item here) RIGHT NOW, to the maxxxxtreme. And this isn’t just a comic observation: excessive levels of personal debt are worrying to many economists. It certainly worries me what will happen when the bogan binge-buying bubble bursts …

6 05 2010
Mick

Gave it to an overseas charity that will spend it on someone more needy that your average garden variety bogan

7 05 2010
Tinnish Lij

Went and bought an Aussie -made dining setting for $930.00. Should I ask da guvmnt for da udder $30?

8 05 2010
P!nky Has A Bra!n

deffo…$30 out of pocket, that’s un-australian

8 05 2010
albert

I spent it while on holiday in Vietnam.

6 05 2010
Simon of South Yarra

This article should be taught in schools – in the ethics, economics, social studies, political science and philosophy classes.

The inherent lack of logic shown by the bogan is beautifully highlighted by the juxtaposition of the FOWF” mantra and the cry for increased baby bonus.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

FOWF? to borrow a phrase from a recently resurfaced bogan luminary, “please explain?”

Also, is there any movement on my suggestion for a Pauline/Barnaby/ors post? What about something on detention centres or children overboard?

6 05 2010
Simon of South Yarra

F… Off, We’re Full

6 05 2010
vivisection

I pay my taxes and don’t try to get back any more than I am owed. I feel pissed off that as citizen that does not have full legal equality under the law, I am charged full taxes. It seems that as a gay person, I cannot marry or adopt a child, yet my taxes are good enough to take to pay for family allowances, baby bonuses and social services to assist children f#cked up by people who can access these institutions.

I know that many single people and unmarried heterosexual de-facto couples are in a similar position, but what annoys me, is that I have no choice. If i had a choice and decided not to access these institutions, fair enough, I wouldn’t complain. But as a second class citizen under the law, where the F#ck is my discount!!

6 05 2010
NSM

very valid points Viv, the time in my life I paid the most tax without benefit was when I was single and childless, it stung, but I wasn’t actively discriminated against by being denied services, it must be very frustrating.

6 05 2010
vivisection

It is frustrating, but luckily I can see it isn’t all about me, well some of the time anyway!

6 05 2010
NSM

lol good to hear!

I have no problems paying tax, having been the recipient of well over $300,000 worth of world leading specialist surgical and medical care, for absolutely nothing more than my medicare contributions over the years, I think our tax dollar is well justified, and would have no problem paying more if necessary to keep/improve our services.

6 05 2010
Kat

Hey, cheer up! You can still be classed as defacto and lose heaps of Centrelink benefits just like hetero people in defacto partnerships.

6 05 2010
miss dahl

Whoa…hold the weddin’ …. are unmarried heterosexual de-facto couples really viewed as second class citizens? Is that what you’re telling us?

6 05 2010
Kat

No. I’m saying exactly what I said.

6 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

I am with you, what I hate is seeing Centrelink advertising “same sex defacto relationships are now recognised by some wanker” Well done Centrelink, but homosexual people want total equality not just lip service.

6 05 2010
Kat

I don’t think Centrelink really cares about the equality aspect – it’s more about saving money by classing couples as double income and not having to give them as much.

6 05 2010
Sam

So you want to be able to pick and choose? How boganistically selfish.

How about you kick in a bit more tax money for AIDS/HIV research and we call it quits?

7 05 2010
vivisection

Because AIDS / HIV impacts more heterosexuals globally, in particular young , black women 25-35 years old. Because I’m not asking to pick and choose, I am asking for equality in human rights. Because most HIV research is funded by major pharmaceutical companies, not the govt, and most of the outcomes of that research is used to assist the third world who are fighting a global pandemic wiping out entire generations of families, a fact conveniently ignored by bigots like yourself.

7 05 2010
vivisection

And if you are wondering how I know this, its because, being boganistically selfish, i have worked in the HIV/AIDs medical healthcare, research and support services field for the last 15 years, on an income much , much lower than my counterparts who choose to work in corporate services.

7 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

Why don’t you google MSF- Doctor’s with out boarders, they will show you just how shit the HIV/AIDS pandemic is. It’s frightening that the “Big Pharma” charges an african $50USD per pill. HIV patients need a least 7 or 8 pills a day. How can an African living in the slums afford that?!! This IS a human Rights Issue and not sexuality one.
How does this ignorance continue!!!

7 05 2010
vivisection

Interestingly, many of the trials being done these days are to see if different / lower dosages and combination of multiple pills can be used, lowering the costs to third world communities.

Without the Australian gay communities willingness to educate and create effective govt policy in the 80’s when this epidemic started, the heterosexual community would have be in a much worse position than they are now in terms of HIV incidence .ie african-american communities in the USA and the third world communities.

Likewise, it was the willingness of HIV positive gay men to participate in trials of highly toxic drugs and suffer side effects to hideous to mention, that has made HIV a treatable chronic condition today, for everyone. Who can afford it.

But Sam, maybe you’re right, perhaps it’s just bogan selfishness to expect any govt funding/ support at all. You wont be the first straight guy to come in demanding access to everything, on medicare, when you catch HIV on your next trip to Indonesia, India, Africa, China, etc.

7 05 2010
Sam

Equality in your human rights? Or your adopted child’s human rights…who has two dads?

Really? Do they have AIDS in other countries too? Not worth commenting further on this.

Just for interest, what is the incidence rate amongst 1st world gay men vs any other 1st world group? I think it something like 50x the rate of the population.

Everyone pays for something they don’t or can’t use or that they use more / less of than someone else, people that whinge about it are selfish.

7 05 2010
Sam

Agree – in 3rd world countries it is a human rights issue.

We live and pay tax in Australia. Are you saying it is the gubmint’s fault or greedy corporations’ fault that the majority of Australians, with AIDS, contracted AIDS? Or is it generally a lifestyle choice gone bad?

7 05 2010
vivisection

Aids doesn’t discriminate – people do. What kind of narrow minded sanctimonious C#nt are you to think you can attribute fault and blame to people who catch a virus? I’m not saying its anyones fault – you are. Don’t try and drag me into your bullsh!t. I’ve seen you loitering around this site for a long time and frankly you are piece of sh!t, not worthy of any more of my time or energy. Despite seeing numerous gutless attacks on other posters, you have never once offered any well thought out opinion on any issue. Go back and read what i have written, then respond with a coherent argument. Until then, see ya.

7 05 2010
Sam

Haha – Not my fault I shared a needle or had unprotected sex with a carrier – it is the virus’ fault!

I think people should get all the support and treatment they need, regardless of how it was contracted. I also think that, in Australia, it is usually the patient’s own fault that they got the virus. Just like it is usually stupid people who eat to much who get fat and fat diseases…have much sympathy for them Vivi?

You can’t pick and choose mate. You really are a whiney little twerp aren’t you?

Well thought out opinion? Read your own biased version of how a society should be so that poor, discriminated against Vivi is not being ripped off! Pathetic.

7 05 2010
vivisection

I haven’t picked and choosen. I said, as a second class citizen, i should pay second class taxes. I said I didnt see why I should contribute to baby bonus’ and family allowances.

I followed this almost immediately by stating that I realised it wasn’t all about me.

You told me I was bogan and selfish for not wanting to pay for baby bonuses wanting to pick and choose

You raised HIV/ AIDS – saying I should pay higher taxes for research and trials because I was gay.

I raised the issue that pharmaceutical companies pay for most HIV trials – you ignored this.

I clearly stated that HIV / AIDS is not only a gay problem, but a global pandemic. I noted that the gay community’s response in the 80’s has contributed to effectively preventing its spread into the wider heterosexual community.

I noted that the gays communities willingness to subject themselves to unknown treatments which initially killed more than they cured, has made the condition manageable today.

You stated it was a gay problem, made up some statistics and then contradicted yourself by also blaming Injecting Drug Users – By the way, you forgot those irresponsible haemophiliacs, who no doubt deserve it too.

You then promote a user pay model of health provision – blaming fatties for fat conditions. By this logic, pregnant women should pay for their pre and post natal care. Not baby bonuses and family allowances.

Which brings us back to the statement i made initially, as a comment on the bigotry and homophobia inherent in our system. That is, I shouldnt have to pay for the lifestyle choices of heterosexuals.

I immediately made it clear that I knew it wasnt all about me.

whereas

You have wasted your afternoon preaching a hate filled user pay model of blame attributed healthcare.

7 05 2010
vivisection

loser

9 05 2010
P!nky Has A Bra!n

Who is this moron Viv? Pfft…

7 05 2010
Sam

Cut and pasted from my comment above:
“I think people should get all the support and treatment they need, regardless of how it was contracted”

Read much Vivi? I am for universal healthcare, no questions asked.

I just added the gay/AIDS stats because the evidence is irrefutable and I wanted to emphasise the fact that it is impossible to have a decent society without people sharing. No one is a perfect consumer or a perfect member of society, not even you.

On average, in Australia, each male homosexual consumes more AIDS related funding than a male heterosexual – this is a FACT. Do I have a problem with this? NO. I realise that being gay in itself is not causal here but there must be something in the culture that leads to risky behaviour.

Blame and fault is one thing. People need to be made aware that their actions have consequences. Support from society when people ruin themselves anyway should be conditionless in my opinion.

For the record, I also think the baby bonus should be scrapped…but my reasons are due to societal issues, not my tax bill!

7 05 2010
Vivisection

I do not want the baby bonus scrapped at all! Please read what said.
Re causal factors in gay culture contributing to HIV, have you considered;
low self esteem resulting from discrimination can contribute to higher risk taking behaviours. Mental health, prevalent in the whole community, often lead to high risk sexual behaviour.
Drug misuse, resulting from not being able to cope with discrimination and prejudice also can lead to high risk sexual behaviour.
Condoms break.
You can catch HIV from 1 sexual encounter, not just sluts. Catch HIV .
I don’t recall ever claiming perfection, but I will call people out on Ill informed ignorance, particularly against a community that has protected the wider cmunity whilst enduring the 30th year of an epidemic that killedany people that I have known, worked with and loved

8 05 2010
P!nky Has A Bra!n

Viv, you’re right, people such as this ‘person’ can’t see beyond themselves.

Sam, it is a human rights issue. People are dying of a manageable (i use the term loosely) disease is INHUMANE. and the only real reason is because Big Pharma, like you, is a self prick. I guess you think that homosexuals should loose the right to vote etc; One day your kind will die out via evolutionary means.

8 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

What about the resurgence of TB, Polio, Whopping Cough, et al; Who do we thank for that? Oh yes, TT/ACA…

This isn’t a ‘lifestyle’ choice. This is a disease. Only religitards who are stuck in the circa 1980’s idea’s that make AIDS a “Gay Disease” believe the drivel presented as fact above.

Two gay men, will do a much better job of being parents than two bogans.

It’s not the governments fault about corporate blood suckers like those bastards Pfizer. But they could do more to keep “big Pharma’ in line.

It’s a ridiculous argument that Pfizer et al; “gave” Australian’s AIDS. Talk about extremism. Gay people didn’t give Australia AIDS, who knows how it got here, and really right now, who really gives a shit, what’s important is research.

8 05 2010
Sam

wow – what wild extrapolations, tangents, assumptions and conclusions! Your rant is so off topic and non-related to any of my posts that all I can do is laugh.

“Two gay men, will do a much better job of being parents than two bogans” – what if these gay men are also bogans? Gays are not exempt you know.

People like you Pinky like to follow the sheep on what is acceptable to mock and what is not, regardless of any information. You are happy to spend your days pointing out bogan’s short comings and how they affect our society. Most bogans (like the Coke Zero girl) are of low IQ, this is not their fault! IQ is generated at conception.

It is pointless trying to respond to your rants as you will ignore anything I have written and respond to what you would have liked me to have written.

You are a moron.

9 05 2010
P!nky Has A Bra!n

Sam, you so funny.

10 05 2010
Sam

baaaaaaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa

11 05 2010
P!nky Has A Bra!n

See, I told you, you’re funny.

6 05 2010
Simon of South Yarra

In my yoof, studied macroeconomics, wanted to study past papers to get a grip on what to expect in the exams. Every year the questions were the same, but this was no help as the answers changes every year.

6 05 2010
James

Shhh. Say that too loud, and every economist will lose their job.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

actually, the fact that the answers change is what keeps them in a job. If it were all about consulting “the wealth of nations” then why would we pay economists and econometricians as much as we (as a society) do?

6 05 2010
Kat

I don’t see this issue as a typicallly bogan one. Just about everyone whines about tax in one form or another and also claims to be doing the country a lot of good by paying taxes …. even though paying tax is …. compulsory???

Never understood taking credit for that.

6 05 2010
devil's advocate

Well, I guess the thing is there is a choice to work in the first place (as opposed to going on the dole or similar) so they feel entitled to have a whinge about single mothers, “dole bludgers” or other net transfer recipients.

In my view nobody earning less than 65kpa has a right to complain anyway as they are on average likely to be paying bugger all tax and recieving a stack of middle-class welfare payments like family tax benefit etc.

But such whingers tend to count the losses and ignore the gains.

6 05 2010
Kat

Well even dole bludgers pay GST on things. In any case, it’s all compulsory. When they make payment of tax voluntary and I sign up for it, I’ll give myself a pat on the back. Until then, I pay tax because I have to.

6 05 2010
Sam

no they don’t, Centrelink picks up the GST tab for dole bludgers.

You could argue that ciggy tax is voluntary (maybe discretionary is more correct)…I choose not to pay a cent in ciggy tax.

12 05 2010
devil's advocate

basic food doesn’t have GST levied on it. I often get a full week’s shopping without a single “asterisk” on my docket. So bogans can choose to pay GST, or choose not to.

6 05 2010
Nat

I can remember studying and one of the guys in my course was on Youth Allowance. He was bitching and moaning about his tax-payer dollars and where they were going. It made me mad. I was also on that allowance but because I also worked casually, ALL money I had coming in was taxed. His wasn’t. At all. He still complained loudly.

6 05 2010
urbanreverie

TBL, thanks guys/girls (strike out whichever one is not applicable). I’ve been waiting for quite some time for another entry which deals with the emetic political opinions of the modern bogue.

Am I the only one to have noticed that the bogan’s political views have shifted in the past fifteen-odd years? All life forms are subject to evolution, and primordial species such as the bogan are no exception. Once upon the time, the bogan was firmly on the Left and supported the Labor Party’s traditional Robin Hood-style approach to taxation and wealth redistribution. The bogan would also respond to every social and service delivery problem with “the gov’ment oughta do sumfint ’bout it!”

But now … the bogan has changed, it now believes in individualism and personal responsibility (not for itself, of course – only for people other than the bogan itself), is fervently patriotic to the point of overt xenophobia, thinks Centrelink beneficiaries should be subjected to drug testing (yes, there’s a Facebook group about that which is just a seeting hive of resentful, downwards-envious, semi-literate all-caps boganism), and now hates high taxation and an effective social safety net, etc.etc. …

John Howard exploited this change in bogan opinion so skilfully and effortlessly during his tenure as PM, much to this country’s eternal shame. Who knows which way the bogan will evolve next?

6 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. We already know – they voted for Kevin Rudd.

6 05 2010
urbanreverie

Yes Fiona, I know the new age bogan voted for Kevin Rudd. But only because of WorkChoices, which threatened the bogan’s earning power (and consequently might have had to default on the loans on their McMansion, pool table, home theatre system, Ford Territory, and last week’s groceries). I’ve seen no evidence that the bogan intends on abandoning its Howard-era xenophobia, resentment and disdain – no, HATRED – for those who are excluded from this nation’s prosperity.

6 05 2010
miss dahl

Workchoices threatened anyone’s earning power. It empowered the employers. Arbitrary decisions about sacking employees could be made and held up and the employee would have no recourse. Saw it happen more than once. P.S. I’m no Krudd fan any more than I’m a fan of certain types of employers.

6 05 2010
urbanreverie

I agree, WorkChoices was a threat to all. And it took the treacherous crime that was WorkChoices to rouse the bogan out of its blinkered stupor and vote John Howard out.

The bogan – the very same bogan who enthusiastically signed onto AWAs in the late 1990s and signed away their overtime, penalty rates, holiday loading, long service leave and other ancillary benefits because an extra $3.57 an hour on the base rate made them feel heaps rich – can always be counted on to vote not based on a commitment to social solidarity or traditional values, or a firm and considered adherence to a particular ideology – but out of a selfish concern solely for its own hip pocket. Appealing to the bogan’s dislike of society’s outsiders works too, but the hip pocket trumps this. John Howard learned this lesson in 2007. Kevin Rudd might learn it as well if interest rates keep rising.

6 05 2010
Bag O'Turnips

I grew up in two households, both where the male breadwinnners were self-employed as subcontractors in the housing construction sector. Both were virulently anti-union and unfortunately, I was infected in my impressionable youth.

I was a right little Tory bastard (mind you, more the libertarian end of the Wiberwal spectrum) until I was in my mid-twenties, where by then I had worked both with my Dad and for one of those small IGA stores, where the WA workplace agree(by signing, or don’t come Monday)ments were the norm (like Bloody Jeff’s Victoria in the same period) and then left to work briefly in hospitality; from the IGA I leapt from the frying pan into the fire. I had no penalties beyond $1/hr between 0000-0700 and almost always worked >40 hrs/wk, but still classified casual.

In pretty short order, my individualistic values were challenged and I became radicalised, as well as burnt out. I foreswore that at the next job, I would be unionised. And thus has been the case.

So that was my lesson. In the process, I became aware of the plight of others and added that to my previously latent but now emergent sense of social justice. As I much as I believe in the freedom OF choice, there are times and instances where a freedom FROM choice are better for the great unwashed. At the end of the day, most of us just want to be able to get by: both of those amongst us who try to live an examined life and, yes, the bogan too.

6 05 2010
Sam

Until you start your own business and morph back again.

There is a set of Australians with this characteristic…their name begins with a b.

6 05 2010
Bag O'Turnips

I try to live by the dicta of “do no harm” and “do unto others”. I have made the leap from being a proime candidate of CUBdom to now having to construct an identity which doesn’t quite fit into the dominant narratives. Not always easy to try to live according to your principles, but at least one can rest soundly at night.

It means that one has to forgo some of the niceties that can present your way if you think that being dog-eat-dog to others is quite fair, unless of course that style is returned unto yourself, then God forbid! So now I have to cut my suit according to my cloth and that means I probably wouldn’t become a business owner and if I did, it’d be in a co-op setup.

7 05 2010
Whistling nixie

@urbanreverie: “I’ve seen no evidence that the bogan intends on abandoning its Howard-era xenophobia, resentment and disdain – no, HATRED – for those who are excluded from this nation’s prosperity.”

Of course, they’ll blather the line they’ve been fed about us “avoiding the recession” – never mind that although unemployment hasn’t risen as dramatically as in the early ’90s (so far), it’s still risen 40-odd percent from where it bottomed out three years ago. Never mind that employers’ attitudes towards the disabled in this country leave a lot to be desired, and there’s a deathly silence about the near-disappearance of the public realm.

6 05 2010
Kat

[quote]downwards-envious[/quote]

Beautiful. I’m going to think that next time I hear someone going on about how dole bludgers live the life of riley.

6 05 2010
djm

I think this was a waste of two good articles – TBL mixed tax with middle-class welfare, where each is worthy of a (large) article of its own.

Valid point. Ah well! TBL

6 05 2010
Bag O'Turnips

I have another suggestion: Moral Outrage! is something the bogan is quite adept at and has been hinted in other posts, such as where they’ll sexualise their children, but simultaneously and without irony, rail at a p@€dophile who’s served their time and attempting to rehabilitate into the community.

I know it may have been covered in the Today Tonight/A Current Affair duo, but I believe that these merely stoke along their prejudices (ergo their confected Moral Outrage!) and warrants its own topic.

6 05 2010
John

Good one!

Can you guys do an article about ‘Tall Poppy Syndrome’?

Seems like the bogans are always up in arms when some twat is rightly criticised, attributing it all to ‘Tall Poppies’

6 05 2010
Bag O'Turnips

Catherine Deveney is a case in point. If you’re a woman who is considered to be a “soy-latte sipping elite pinko”, then you’re fair game as far as much of the press are concerned, kicking you while you’re down.

But if you’re male making a living from denigrating people and live on the rightwingnut side of town (yes, I’m talking to you, Andrew Bolt), you can spurt forth all manner of bilious trash decrying those same elites, which is a bit rich coming from someone in a privileged position, having your very own column in a daily! No, just retract at worst or ignore, or if you’re Sam Newman, get counselling in order to maintain your dubious post.

So why didn’t The Age of Ms Deveney counselling for her misguided tweets? I wish the Horror Sun would drop Bolter like a hot tuber.

6 05 2010
Will S

Wait, what? What happened? Google time!

http://au.christiantoday.com/article/atheists-say-the-ugliest-things/8148.htm

oh man
now i just love her even more ❤

6 05 2010
Bag O'Turnips

I wonder if those Christian folk would dare do a (well-deserved) bucketing of fellow apostate Andrew Bolt, when eventually the Horror Sun have determined that he’s cost them one lawsuit too many and he has his fall of grace, like they did to Ms Deveney. I dare them to gleefully castigate whilst beseeching others to pray for him, like they did to her.

I’ll be waiting with bated breath, methinks.

8 05 2010
brad

i bet you think Germaine Greer is intelligent too.Sorry man suggesting that an eleven should get laid, is not what most people would call comedy.If the said eleven year old was my daughter she would be in her after-life(pitch black and silent)

9 05 2010
Will S

reactions like this make it funny

9 05 2010
brad

how so?, it concerns me that peanuts like you can overlook someone’s obvious lack of any moral compass or decency and respect for other people simply because you believe that she is part of “your tribe”. Now i know how the Richmond Cheer Squad survives-baa baa brother

10 05 2010
Bag O'Turnips

Moral compass, eh? I wasn’t defending Deveney outright and yes, it was appalling judgement on her part. A bit too outré, even as a too-clever-by-half pisstake. But she has paid her due. Unlike Bolter, who gets away daily with making a living out of spewing forth barely-concealed hatred to both people whom he may disagree with politically (of whom he labels as “elites”—like he can talk!) and to those who are in a minority position, kicking them with the downward envy syndrome at his heels.

I think it is poor when people think it’s quite alright to allow some rightwingnut bigot to continue shooting off their mouths, but crucify (the generally better-spoken and more responsive to reason) lefties who have a brain fart and say something amiss. Both camps ought to be accountable.

11 05 2010
brad

cool Bag O you speak sense,my ranting was actually directed at Will S-blind following really annoys me.Bolta would kick her leso ass in a thumb fight though ha ha(that was a brain fart)

6 05 2010
Will S

Also, contrast this with the Hey Hey thing…
19th century style racism = cool with the bogues
mocking our white trash celebs = RAGE

7 05 2010
martin

Well if it makes you feel any better David Oldfield got sacked only after 3 shifts on 2UE for saying that the refugees should be contained with eletrical fences and that they should be fried or some such.

7 05 2010
martin

Except I guess he’s more right winged than Bolt, or at least he makes out to be. At the end of the day he’s just another neo con imo, ie, bring em in the front door so it makes me money but whinge about em coming in the back.

10 05 2010
Bag O'Turnips

He was turfed simply because he was not very good. He just couldn’t play a subtle tune on the dogwhistle.

11 05 2010
Will S

I remember when a certain student forum trolled him on air and it got on media watch. And by remember I mean “was involved in”.

6 05 2010
pb

lately – particularly the teen and pre-teen bogue – has started declaring anyone and everyone jealous (or jelious) if they dare critique some celebrity they like. jealousy is the tall poppy syndrome of the 21st century.

7 05 2010
reparty

It’s the Maury Povich “Y’all are haterz!!111!!” Syndrome.

6 05 2010
James Hunter

Tubesteak,
so you have a thourough background in economics and tax?
well I guess you have a thourough unserstanding of a lot of failed theroies and models and of statistics that take no account of the outlanders.
Great .Thank the diety of your choice that you are not running the country .

7 05 2010
Peter

Oh, James Hunter, you wooden soldier! What, pray tell, are your qualifications for running the (sic) country? Aside from an overwhelming desire to don your Little Lord Fauntleroy sailor suit and dream about deep blue sea. Try a little less blue sky thinking and a lot less white lady drinking and then someone might give you a job.

7 05 2010
Sten

Great… it starts again.

7 05 2010
vivisection

what does? I saw nothing. Nothing I tell you.

7 05 2010
Sten

I’ll play along with your ignorance for now, Viv. If things go wrong at work today though, it’ll be Keating time again.

7 05 2010
vivisection

I start the day off with my morning mantra ” In with anger, out with love” – gets me through to until about 10.30am. Then its anyone’s guess.

7 05 2010
miss dahl

Love it!

7 05 2010
devil's advocate

Dyslexia is the spurious allergy of the internet.

8 05 2010
P!nky Has A Bra!n

Don’t look at it will go away…

7 05 2010
ExtremeBoganHunter

Speaking about Sailor suits, a bogan could inform me yesterday that some sixteen year old chick doing the solo sailing thing was of more importance news wise than the latest oil spill.

I just had to ask him if a sixteen year old chick doing a solo sailing thing through an oil spill would therefore be of even more interest?

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

Someone mentioned setting up a bogan-o-meter the other day and I just thought we actually have one with the list.

So I went through it to work out my bogan % by seeing which of the entries I like.
1) Thailand – Had my honeymoon there and really enjoyed it once we left Bangcock.
2) Glassin C*nts – Goes without saying really.
3) Big Things – Sucker for a big thing.
4) Doing as Simon says!

So that makes me 2.92% bogan. I can live with that.

Anyone else?

7 05 2010
Brimstone

I really like ‘bogan’ rock, and i’d wear Ed Hardy stuff if it wasn’t for the stigma

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

The Ed Hardy really bumps the % up Brimstone.

8 05 2010
P!nky Has A Bra!n

I own a ministry cd
I wear A Bogan Fragrance (although I don’t think it’s bogan)
I have a big screen teev.

What’s my percentage Simon..?

8 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

2.46% Pinky, well done.

9 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

Thank you. Do I loose points if I say the Big Screen Mr Pinky and I have wasn’t bought with Baby Bonus or the Stimulator $900. Pleeasee… 😛

7 05 2010
vivisection

Border Security – Check
A Current Affair – Check
and i did purchase the Ministry of Sound 80’s Anthems

All three are guilty pleasures. But the first two I consider essential Bogan research.

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. Let’s see…

Um, can’t check anything.

0% bogan.

As expected.

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

Err Fi, If memory serves you like to attend the Australian Open for the finals and no one is going to admit to anal so there may be a couple there?

7 05 2010
James

Don’t forget premixed drinks. I am certain the Fiona would have Chef (or someone similar) take care of her mixed drinks.

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

Ah yes White Russians.

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. I only tried them that one day, in an attempt at achieving a higher state of adiding (to match my degree in the Classics).

7 05 2010
James

Not to mention big things, as in the ancestral manse.

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. Hmm, I DO have a Grand Sitting Area. But that doesn’t count, as it really is grand.

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

So that gets you to 5 or 3.7% Fi.

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. I shan’t believe it. I demand a recount!!!

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

1) Tennis
2) Anal
3) Pre mixed Drinks
4) Big Things
5) Grand sitting Rooms.

Yep all correct.

7 05 2010
James

Don’t forget short courses. An M.St only goes for two years…

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

4.48%

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. Excuse me!

NOT anal.
Tennis as a VIP, so doesn’t count.
ONE DAY I had a White Russian (or three).

I admit to the others. ;-(

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. Just because you took 10 years to do your PhD…

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

Ok, I took a lack of denial on anal as proof positive so I will take that out and just count the tennis as a half. I have seen you enjoy glassin c*nts though so that will have to go in. 4.1%

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. Yes, I have glassed a c*nt or two during my sojourns here. And I HAVE rather enjoyed it.

7 05 2010
James

LOL indeed. I took two years and 9 months. And at least I have one…

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

Do we all qualify for a PhD in Boganology?

7 05 2010
James

Sounds very appealing Simon. I had been thinking of attempting a second…

8 05 2010
P!nky Has A Bra!n

You’re very committed Viv, I just can’t watch it. I end up wanting to vomit and huddled rocking backwards and forwards in the corner. I’m very sensitive to bogan teev.

Add to my list…I have an Ikea couch.

8 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

Up to 3% now.

9 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

Really!!! ON NO!!! But I have messy kids…I wasn’t going to spends loads on a couch so they could ruin it, nah, that should drop it back to at least what I was…come on…**begs**

7 05 2010
chubbybloodfart

I live far off in the wild
Where moss and woods are thick and plants perfumed.
I can see mountains rain or shine
And never hear market noise.
I light a few leaves in my stove to heat tea.
To patch my robe I cut off a cloud.
Lifetimes seldom fill a hundred years.
Why suffer for profit and fame.

7 05 2010
Simon - Glasser at Arms

Missed ya Chub, how are the wilds treating you?

7 05 2010
SD

Chubs is that a Chinese poem.

If it’s yours, I am impressed.

7 05 2010
James

I should admit that I have at least two.

Post-Christmas sales (as an academic, I need to minimise expenditure).
St Patrick’s Day (although both my parents are Irish).

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. You have to go to sales. What are they like?

7 05 2010
James

Awful. I try my best not to remember.

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. I can’t even imagine. Do your poor children wake up on xmas morning with nary a present hanging from the metaphorical stocking?

7 05 2010
James

Actually, one of the reasons I need to go to these sales is because I spend so much of my income in the lead up to Xmas on presents for my child, in the process neglecting myself and my (long suffering) wife.

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. Aw, that makes baby Fi smile. Not so much the wife part.

7 05 2010
James

Is that a hint of jealousy?

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. Typical male misreading. I meant I don’t care that your wife is long suffering (having long realised the fact).

7 05 2010
James

Maybe that doesn’t count actually – I don’t like the sales, but am forced through my chosen profession to attend them.

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. It counts…

7 05 2010
James

As does your White Russian.

7 05 2010
Fiona of Toorak

LOL. That was one day, not one day per year.

8 05 2010
chubbybloodfart

chubby and edna reporting from the road. We have no reply fuction on the 3g version of wordpress.
we are in the town of nyngan nsw. Camped on the banks of the… Wait for it… Bogan River! Bang in the middle of the Bogan Shire! I want to make heaps of jokes, but the tiny qwerty keyboard is a nightmare. The best thing we’ve seen is an invitation to the “Bogan Day Out” in september. Another rich vein which is beyond my tiny keyboard.
We love youse all
except peter, you’re a goose.

9 05 2010
P!nky Has A Brain

Cubby and Edna,

Have loads of fun pointing and laughing!! Keeps us updated on all your “Bogan Adventures!!”

You’se two have a grouse (?sp) toime.

And yes Peta is a pain…bah

8 05 2010
chubbybloodfart

SD. The poem is japanese. Dogen I think.

10 05 2010
SD

Thanks for putting it on the site, Chubby.

9 05 2010
Brett

more proof that TBL are just shit socialist cunts.
oops.

9 05 2010
OhNo

better glass ’em Brett-o.

Better to be safe than sorry. TBL

10 05 2010
Brett

Oh don’t get me wrong, I hate bogans, and I DESPISE anyone who is pushing for another “stimulus” hand-out.
And this article was well written in that it pointed out the hypocrisy etc

However there is far too great a pro-statist sentiment on this website :C

9 05 2010
Sam

Hates socialism
Loves FHOG
Loves baby bonus
Loves $900 cash stimulator
Hates hypocrites

9 05 2010
toony

Nowt to do with the subject, but this is pure BoGold;

Ex-Rugby player and his battle with drugs, grog blah blah blah…scroll down to a third of the way through the second part and be amazed by his kids names. My mind has been blown…….

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sunday-telegraph/geyer-i-mixed-beer-speed-and-dope/story-e6frewt0-1225863993861

10 05 2010
miss dahl

If my husband did that in the hospital whilst I was having an ultrasound, I’d seriously question having any more children with him.

9 05 2010
Peter

Oh, James Hunter, you mavrik!

9 05 2010
James Hunter

Look every one, Peter has said something sensible !!

12 05 2010
Dennis

How about the phrase My taxes pay your salary ? The most Maxxtreme bogan sentiment of all time perhaps?

14 05 2010
P!nky Has A Bra!n

In the top 5 at least Dennis.

20 12 2010
chubbybloodfart

Now, here’s a thing.
ABC3 is for children right?
so, why is it that right now, across all three ABCs in SD, I see kiddie shows?
Why, if there is a dedicated kiddie’s channel, am I seeing kiddie’s shows on the non (dedicated) kiddie channels? What? Am I supposed to watch SKY NEWS?
Since I have no kiddies (as such), can I please have back whichever proportion of my Eight Cents TAX a Day is committed to Children’s Programming.
Seriously.
If I only had access to 60% of the roads, or 60% of my water or 60% of the power
I’d riot!

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