The bogan hates being told what to do, hates having its movements restricted, and hates feeling obliged to anyone. This is an important reason why it loves purchasing investment properties; so it can tell someone what to do, restrict their movements, and have someone feel obliged to them.
While the bogan finds other classes of investment to be annoyingly abstract, residential property provides the bogan with the ability to cut corners on maintenance, and to smugly survey its empire. Worried about tales told to it by uninformed bogan friends about stockmarket losses, it will enthusiastically lap up advice dispensed by the same uninformed bogan friends about the magic of negative gearing on residential property. Indeed, it is likely that the bogan followed its herd and invested in a Telstra stock offering, only to be infuriated by years of poor performance. The impatient bogan then sells low, and decries the entire stockmarket as ‘dodgy’. 
With this hatred of dodginess fresh in its mind, the bogan will seek refuge in the fantastic 25% returns promised at property seminars conducted by fine businessmen such as Henry Kaye. At the conclusion of the dazzling seminar, the bogan re-mortgages three of its internal organs and part of its McMansion to invest in a yet-to-be-constructed waterfront villa in a part of the Gulf of Carpentaria that is “about to boom”. This speculatory process is replicated in other emotion/ego driven acquisitions in its home town, all highly leveraged.
This complete lack of portfolio diversification leaves the bogan’s nascent empire open to x-treme things. When property prices increase, it will take out a high interest equity loan against its existing properties to fund the acquisition of new ones, further outsmarting the market with its inspired blend of greed and hubris. Feeling every bit the bulletproof oligarch, it will purchase things such as high performance vehicles, yachting holidays, and a home theatre system the size of Barnaby Joyce’s economic incompetence. Disappointed that the “HEHEHE” personalised numberplate is not available, it settles for “NVESTA”.
A year or two down the track, the Federal Government reluctantly accepts that it can no longer fund policies designed to artificially inflate residential property values and appease gluttonous bogan voters. Prices then fall moderately, sending the bogan’s bloated and astoundingly leveraged portfolio into a tailspin. The bank then calls in some negative equity loans, and the bogan is forced to arrange a string of hasty auctions at the bottom of the market. All that remains is a 5 year old car, a 5 year old TV, and a bank account the size of Peter Garrett’s project management skills. As the bogan dejectedly sifts through its mail on auction day, it eyes a pamphlet guaranteeing 30% returns on the stockmarket, and an accompanying seminar at a nearby motel the following weekend.
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LOL. Bogans can afford to invest????
They can’t. Negative gearing.
LOL. I wouldn’t have thought they were in a high enough tax bracket to make it worthwhile. I guess that wouldn’t stop them though…
Maths has never been a bogan strong point. Some of them struggle to work out how many beers there are in a six-pack.
you truly are an oxygen thief
Cashed up bogans can. These would be people that used to earn little, like tradespeople, but now with all the contruction around, they are making a hell of a lot more money, but are still bogans. They’re the ones driving the fluro green holden utes.
since when did tradespeople earn little?
well fiona,
sad truth is that the bogans of mt druit and similarly esteemed suburbs in victoria have MUCH higher disposable incomes then the impovrished of Toorak.
you see the bogan dosent have three mortagues on a house four rug rats in private school and a couple of beemers on leese
they can actually spen their money on all sorts of artistic obsenities for the inside of their domain and for the barbie area and the collection of concrete gnomes in the front yard.maybe an extravagant set of christmas lights requiring half a powerstation to run .
But you want poor,try too rak
LOL. You’re confusing liquidity with wealth.
surely you fiona have both ?
LOL. Of course.
what a waste
I’ve come to love your style of trolling Fiona. Wanna get married?
ads, now i’m jelous
LOL. Well, “commenting” would be a more apt description, but you’ll never to join the ever growing queue of suitors vying for my fair hand.
not too sure of your grammer there fiona but
see your point how to choose the Mr Right from all the frogs in the pond? If I were you i’d go for the one with the john howard tee shirt !!
You’re not allowed to correct anyone’s grammar if you spell grammar with an E.
bec, actually with an e not an E, we must all be accurate when correcting ??
Those who live in glass houses (can’t spell) shouldn’t throw stones (criticise grammar), JH…
Aw, but we have a future! I’m sure of it! ❤
You are a bogan Fiona are you really from Toorak. Did you read the last post about SMS speak, why must you start every post with a sentence where you write LOL?
LOL. LOL.
fiona are you sending all your posts by sms? or is the use of sms speak just an unconscious bogan pretension
Fiona doesnt have any rugrats in any school – she wouldn’t bother letting childbirth ruin her perfect rich body
LOL. Exactly! Do we know each other???
i seem to think i saw you talking to each other at jenny craige ?
JHunter attempting to land a 3 punch combination…
sadly, a fly flew between him and Fiona and took the brunt of the force…
= no score for James’ flurry of insults…
its very difficult to take anything on bored (joke/spelling) with such poor spelling and grammar…
ah lofty, but to keep silent would be a sign of indifference to my listners ! (appologies to oscar wilde)
LOL. At your level, Dr Seuss would seem to be a more appropriate recipient of your “apology”.
You don’t understand what wealth is do you?
agreed. since when did they invest in anything ???
of course they can afford to invest, because the banks will give any bogan as much money as they want
since when do Bogans live anywhere other than A. with relatives; or B. in housing provided at public expense. A Bogan would not waste time saving a deposit; and would be in no position to get a loan for his own home, much less for an investment property.
Who ever wrote No.85 has been spending too much time watching daytime television: take a grip on yourself !
Your final paragraphs about the Federal government would appear to confuse a visionary, but failed, initiative in the U.S.A. by President CLINTON, on one hand; and on the other hand, the local attempt at vote buying by K.RUDD.
By the way, by now, Senator GARRETT must be longing for the lifestyle of a rockstar, where he could criticize as boldly as he liked, without ever having to implement anything.
Ever hear of the old 100 percent home loan? Bogans have access to them too, you know, and no deposit required.
Ever hear of the term cashed up bogan (CUB)? Howard’s “aspirationals”?
Ever hear of the First Home Buyer’s Grant? Nothing to do with the US government, and everything to do with the Australian one.
And who the hell is Senator Garrett? There is a Member of Parliament by the name of Peter Garrett, but who is this senator of which you speak?
Agreed – I think that Shortly Comstive probably has a few ‘neg-geared’ placed of his own… and a mate who it an accountant who has advised him that its ‘fullysick, nothin dodgy’
My brother is the biggest bogan I have ever met and he has 4 investment properties and counting.
He doesn’t “waste time” saving for anything. He just borrows on his borrowings. Banks love him. He’s theirs forever.
This blog is about the new style of bogan aka “Cashed Up Bogan”, its not about the old school bogan that you would find on relatives couches and/or in public housing (which you obviously have howard-esk views on). If you read the “What is a Bogan Today” page it explains it all there.
The ironic part is that many NaBs rent their investment properties out to Old School Bogans (often with Rent Assistance), and are the first to complain if one of their Old School Bogan tenants do stuff like leaving couches in the front yard of their rental property.
“…the old school bogan that you would find on relatives couches and/or in public housing”.
Correct, that would be the ‘Aussie Battler’.
Bogans love calling Kevin Rudd KRUDD…
Actually I call him KRUDD as well – a PM with a millionaire wife (and deservedly so for her business skills) that decries the liberal freemarket system that helped make her – and him – wealthy.
Shame there isn’t a synonym for his name that implies dopey hypocrite as well.
LOL. Can I suggest “krudd” fills the gap quite nicely?
*sigh*
Dear Peter. If only he’d hung on for a few more months. 😦
Then we could have had a shot at an Abbott and Costello leadership team.
Ha ha well put Shorty thats why most leftoids like too put themselves in positions where they can make the big calls without being held accountable when they go pear shape(as they nearly always do). Eg ATSIC,CSIRO, anyone on the ALP run climate change committee.
LOL. Why did you qualify your last example with “… run climate change committee”?
too coax you out of your cave(a stylish one i could imagine)
the TBL facebook page isn’t working 😦
Who is that guy on the shopping channels who promises ‘to start you on the road to 2 million’? Has anybody actually been to one of his seminars?
If I go to one will I walk out with 2 million and a big smile?
The real way to make $2 million is to travel the country running seminars instructing bogans to either buy-off-the-plan or buy-and-renovate using your home as equity.
“In less than three years, we now own five properties worth over $2 million!!”
(No mention of the $3.5 million debt)
Only if you are the guy running the seminar!
Of coarse they can afford to invest after working at the mines..mortgage repayments are about the same price as a trip to Ed hardy
TBL bashing the politicians – I like it…
“and a home theatre system the size of Barnaby Joyce’s economic incompetence.”
“and a bank account the size of Peter Garrett’s project management skills.”
Very nicely tied in…
and balanced VG
thank god we do’nt have a bipartisan approach to anything
Don’t forget the never ending sneering at renters. While the “loser” renter will pay a portion of their wage forever in rent, the bogan with their plethora of investment properties will rest easy knowing that they don’t have to constantly fork out money every week.
… except maintenance costs, repairs, and various other annual levies.
Despite being in hock to the banks for hundreds of thousands, and owning consumer “assets” like cars and televisions (which only depreciate in value) they laugh haughtily at the “have-nots” and declare themselves the “smart money”.
The bogan knows that all those maintenance costs are tax deductible
The bogan doesn’t know that tax deductible really only means you get the benefit of the deduction at your marginal tax rate
Which for many bogans is only about 30% effectively meaning they are losing 70 cents out of every dollar spent
But the bogues thinks it knows all about leveraging and negative gearing
“Property never goes down, it just keeps going up, up, up mate. It doubles in value every seven to ten years, you can’t lose money on property”. Hmm, try telling that to the Japanese who were there in the late 80’s, early 90’s.
This would have to be in the top 5 bogan financial tips.
The written term they use when talking about renters is “looser”.
no mention of the “two years rental guarantee” hook, being used by some land rats sorry I mean property developers..
This was great.
The only thing that was missing was an explanation that after all costs are considered and the negative effect on income that comes from negative gearing…..
The bogan would have gotten a better ROI had it invested whatever money it had in an ING savings maximiser account (or equivalent Bankwest account which pays more interest than the aforementioned)
No point in showing the bogan that over the last 30 years the stockmarket has outperformed the property market. This would require the understanding of complex mathematics
LOL. Actually, it would require an understanding of simple mathematics. However, I take your point…
“simple” is a relative concept not a constant, Fiona
For bogans, if they have to remove their socks in order to count then it is “complex mathematics”
The bogan takes his fancy new calculator back for an abusive refund after he tried to divide by zero.
..or give-up trying to work out how to use the calculator and use it and amuse themselves by making word such as “boobies”.
Besides why bother trying to work it out for yourself the guy and the “free” investement seminar said i could be a millionaire without spending a cent, i’ll just follow his “free” advise.
id like to see fiona count to twenty two
haha! Hmmm, I wonder how she would get to 21?
sam, a top call so maybe the full monty equals twenty three ?
And if they have to drop their pants, it’s personal finance.
which kind do you use fiona ?
LOL. Advanced, of course.
what on earth for?
balancing your shopping reciepts??
Their response would be “Sharemarket??? You’re better off putting your money on at the track.”
“I hear you can make a lot of money on eBay”.
Bogue – another TBL post coming right there…
EBAY…
bogues love Ebay…
love buying cr@p on there…
love selling cr@p on there…
its the new age Tradin’ Post…
Oh yes, the thrill of clamouring for your recently deceased uncle’s possessions and listing on eBay, before the other relatives can get to them…the joy of overcharging 400% on postage to the unwitting buyer…the power of threatening the seller with negative feedback…an all round online bogan cash grab festival. Of course, when selling “you get hoips foe everythi’ ya list”; when buying “everthin’s a baaaarg’n”.
investment properties isn’t a bogan thing? I thought they would concentrate on their one mcmansion.
Sorry but negative gearing is here to stay, there is now so much wealth(debt) at stake in residential housing it will be nearly impossible to have a correction without serious repercussions.
Take heart that we have an ageing population – even with our large immigration intake. The middle suburbs will be transformed in the next 2 decades from the boomer flight to the coast or the bush.
I think the Boomers will begin to start filtering back over the next 2 decades, with old age necessitating close proximity to medical facilities, and maintenance of the hobby farm/costal property/marina a headache. The change to the middle suburbs may very well be the construction of masses of off the plot retirement homettes.
good point. fuck life is depressing sometimes.
The negative gearing booboo that we have here is a tough one to get out of.
When the Boomers are no longer negative gearing (i.e. once they retire) I think their attitudes towards this scheme may change. I doubt they will want tax revenue, which could be used on aged care, being used to subsudise bogan property investment schemes. As the Boomers are apparently the voting majority I wouldn’t be suprised to see NG phased out slowly.
Hmmm…I wonder how much the cashed up bogan’s investment properties have to blame for inflated house prices in Australia.
back on the topic people, relevant economic, and financial commentary has no business here.
It does sound more like the sort of thing most peoples parents are doing, who are probably too old to fit the NaB model of this blog. My parents have done this (against my less-than-expert, but stating the bleeding obvious, advice). My father also enjoys sleeping through V8 car racing (on the oversized TV), and watching 20/20 cricket, as he has a reasonable chance of staying away for at least one innings. I’m sure there are many retiree’s out there with similar stories, the difference being that most have earnt the money to do so and not furnished their comfort with expansive interest fee purchases.
The thing is that NaBs come in all shapes, sizes and age brackets. Look no further than the recent TBL entry regarding Andre Rieu as confirmation.
Once the 20something NaB becomes a 30something NaB or a 40something NaB, property investment starts to look more and more attractive.
Thankfully, my parents have not stooped as low as Andre Rieu, Border Patrol, Ed Hardy, Functional Water, Tribal Tattoos, or most others.
I think, by definition of this blog, a common thread for a NaB would be (a) cashed up, or credited up, and (b) belligerance…investing in property per se is not particularly bogan (although very middle age/Greek/Vietnamese), but investing in ‘Bible Belt’ off-the-plan estates with ridiculous names using 100% finance and the intention of retiring wealthy is very bogan indeed.
Bogue, you got it. This entry is not so much about buying houses as it is about the Bogans ability to attend seminars run by a dropkick with a hired Porsche which promises them huge guaranteed returns on something not built yet, ie the bogan is a sucker waiting to be trapped by the lure of easy money from some snakeoil salesman.
reminds me of the monorail episode of The Simpsons!
“I call the big one bitey” 🙂
so you’re saying all people whom buy investment properties are bogans?Does that include the hundreds of off-shore investers buying up slabs of real estate every weekend in every major city in Australia?
Yep, in fact owning a home of any kind is completely bogan, that is exactly what we are saying!? Aspirational capitalist pigs.
or running dogs of american financial imperialists ?
mind you there seem to be a few paper tigers there as well ??
Yeh, GFC sorted them out.
and they’ll win the flag again next year too- my question was directed towards Tone,his statement drew a long bow thats why i retorted with a similar generalization.No need too get so catty girls
What? You mean the generalisation that bogues come in all shapes, sizes and age brackets? Whilst I don’t have any empirical evidence of this, I have met enough bogans in my time to come to the conclusion that whilst they have broadly similar personalities, their physical attributes can (and do) vary wildly.
That still doesn’t explain your baffling rant about ‘all them forreners takin’ our properties and our women and our JERBS!!!’ which is what I gleaned from your reply.
ha ha you cant see the forest for the trees Anthony this whole blog is a genralisation
thank god a call for common sense to prevail
Dean – Building health infrastructure out in the bush and coasts would require serious infrastructure investment. Boomers have made infrastructure investment unfashionable they won’t be able to go to the bush and coast to retire with much chance of sustained health. They will be huddle to the current clinics unless they are fairly wealthy – hire full time medical qualified carer wealthy.
yeah, I’m thinking of changing my career from being a limp wristed inner city ‘creative’ to something based in health, at least then my job won’t be outsourced overseas… SIGH
eh? sorry – do you actually work in creative arts? please tell me how my job (requiring extensive western cultural knowlegde) can be outsourced to someone in india or asia? (I am a film/VG music composer and writer). In fact I’ve had offers from Bollywood studios. Bizarre logic, or are you a “Graphic Designer” (not a creative job).
I know of an investment-ey chap wrote a self-published book, holds breakfast seminars with people every other weekend, makes certain he gets pics of himself with other investment gurus with a bit of profile, and has a red convertible sports car with the license plate (wait for it) WOOHOO.
Is he a ……. wanker?
No Simon, he’s a ‘winner’…just look at that (leased) red convertible and that care-free personalised number plate! He’s seen (in photographic form) with all the right people, he exudes success and yet, doesn’t take it from ‘da man’. You too can be a ‘winner’ (TM) with just 97 low low interest installments, when you purchase ‘(insert name here); The Key to My Investment Success’ online. Buy now and receive a free six pack of functional water!
I reckon he also has a fake tan and looks like an oompaloompa. Oh and is far to enthusiastic for his own good and people who meet him have to supress the urge to glass him.
He’s a legend in his own formal living room…
No to mention his own Grand Sitting Area.
I meant ‘Not to mention…’, of course. Came over all Scotch (sic) for a moment, with all this talk of money. Must be my Northern British bogan genetic strain surfacing once again.
A mate of mine with the finely tuned sense of bogan financial literacy got seriously burned by negative gearing his home to buy 2 blocks of land to build on for investment purposes. He was burned on the advise of an extremely dodgy finance broker and by his own pure stupidity. In theory his plan was great, except he wasn’t in a position to execute the plan without huge risks nor did he actually execute the plan!!.
Sick of his business, property development was going to be his new vocation and was going to make him a millionaire. Taking advantage of the big increase in the value of his house since he bought it, he had it revalued and remortgaged using a line of credit. He drewdown on the new line of credit to put the deposit on the land. Separate loans were taken out to fund the rest of the land purchase. He loved to boast that he owned 2 investment properties in spite of them being 100% geared.
The dodgy broker apparently told him that the project was ‘self funding’, which my mate took as ‘Stop working your business, the ‘project’ will fund your overly indulgent lifestyle’. Having worked in banking & finance for 10 years, I still couldn’t convince him that there was no such thing as ‘self funding’ projects and that he should keep working to pay his bills. My mate explained that the loans for the land were being paid out of the line of credit against his house and that when the houses are sold, he’d have ‘heaps of cash!’
“But where are you getting the money to pay for the building? Even if you started to build today, you won’t get any return for at least 6 to 9 months! You have no income now, so how do you service the interest bill on the line of credit and pay other bills? I replied
“Don’t worry, I know what I’m doing, it’s all self funding!” he kept telling me.
The next week he used his ‘self funding’ line of credit against his house to put a deposit on a Mercedes. It was money he should have used to pay for a builder.
Needless to say the bank didn’t give him any money to pay for the building on his blocks as he had no cash flow. They then came knocking when his line of credit was maxed out and he couldn’t pay any of his loans back. He sold the blocks, sold his house, but somehow kept the Merc. He went back into business.
But of course the whole catastrophy was never his fault; it was the dodgy brokers fault for telling him that the poroject was self funding and that buying a Mercedes was OK. Moron.
LOL. Hehehe. Greatest. Story. EVAH! ❤
sounds like a person of southern italian extraction “owned “a house with four mortagues on it 3 of then were not registered. all were with family members total owing about 2 1/2 times property value.
he shoulsd have became suspicious when the family decided his wife and kids were better off back in italy. suspect last “most likley” occupation was very deep free diving in the spencer gulf.
way to go??
Nelson, was he on ACA, I am sure I saw him on promo for the show. God dammned gubimint should protect him with regulations or sometink from these dodgy brokers.
LOL. All he had to do was adequately convey an air of “little Aussie battlerness” to ACA.
No, he didn’t get his 15 mins as a prime time TV star. Deep down he knew it was his own stupidity that put him in that position, even if he has never openly admitted it to me.
He asked me several times to lend him money during this time. He was rather upset when I said ‘no’ and wouldn’t believe him when he told me that he was ‘good for it’.
Yikes. Still, just a few tweaks to that story and you’ve got a minute-long lead transcript for ACA. Substitute “moron” and “my mate” for “duped Aussie investor,” delete “bogan” from “bogan financial literacy” and put it on the autocue for Tracy right now. This looks like a job for Australia’s #1 investigative journalist. She’ll get one of her minions to chase around that dodgy broker forever, then throw to miracle weight loss breakthrough #24,601: Chasing dodgy brokers forever.
Cool story, bro.
And the moral of the story is
A) Do not over commit financially.
B) Do your research to understand the RISK you will be taking on
C) If the banks won’t touch you directly, you can’t afford it
D) After being knocked back by the bank directly, don’t obtain finance through a dodgy broker who will fudge your figures and lie on your application form to get the funding approved
E) Don’t buy a Mercedes Benz on the advise of a dodgy broker who no longer gives a shit about you because he has already collected the commission for refering your loan application.
F) LEARN HOW TO PROPERLY MANAGE MONEY
Investment properties is bogan is it?
Well I would never have known. Being very savvy on tax laws and having a rather large portfolio of diversified assets, my investment properties have always performed well.
It is a fact that if I had have put every cent into the sharemarket over the past thirty years my ROi would have been far greater, however it depends on your level of risk, I am risk adverse or risk neutral at the most.
Also the level of fluctuations in, and liquidity of the stock market can cause severe cash flow issues with margin calls and sudden and large reversals of asset worth.Property rarely does this and so your cf can be managed to avoid liquidity crises.
Some scoffed at purchasing properties on equity of assets. thats how everything is bought.
Really TBL has had a huge miss on this one. Even CuB’s or NaBs dont have a really property portfolio, more like a $225k rental bought out at Hoppers Crossing getting a 4% return.
Oh stop bragging…you’ll be getting huge at the gym soon.
LOL. Soon, his Xtreme biceps will be popping out of his Ed Hardy muscle shirt, making it hard for him to fit into his Grand Sitting Area.
Then he’ll meet an untimely demise, after bumping into the bar at an inner city nightclub, then glassing himself after yelling ‘oi, whaddya fink ya farkin’ doon!?!’
Fiona, all that chest will be grand for beating , what?
Whaddya mean “getting” huge.
I need the muscle to beat up the rental povs who dont pay my exorbitant rent 🙂
Nice comeback WMAB.
Well, as opposed to ‘being’ huge, from enjoying the proceeds of your excess too much.
methinks there’s some sour grapes being passed around on this one
Again,
This entry is not so much about buying houses as it is about the Bogans ability to attend seminars run by a dropkick with a hired Porsche which promises them huge guaranteed returns on something not built yet, ie the bogan is a sucker waiting to be trapped by the lure of easy money from some snakeoil salesman. And it’s gullability when it comes to dealings with financial institutions.
Unless I’ve missed it above I don’t think anyone has mentioned the collapse of Storm Financial. To me there would appear to be a common theme regarding those who came unstuck in this debacle:
1) sheep mentality, ie. jumping on the Cassimatis bandwagon;
2) the “get rich quick” mentality, ie unwillingness to actually exert any effort of their own;
3) outright greed;
4) breathtaking stupidity;
5) victim mentality notwithstanding the above points.
Morons the lot of them, displaying numerous hallmarks of boganity.
LOL.
6) the running to the tabloid media to show themselves as unwitting and unwilling victims of a master conman…
I was convinced by an acquaintance to meet the good people of Storm Financial. After listening to their babble for five minutes my mouth was agape with horror.
When I raised my misgivings I was howled down and told I had no idea and need to “Get a life and don’t pull people who are trying to do somethink for themselves down.”
My acquaintance has lost his house. Yet I’m still the dickhead.
“Some scoffed at purchasing properties on equity of assets. thats how everything is bought.”
What’s wrong with cash via savings?
My Grandfather told me that to have his house built he had to live on site in a shack and pay for sections of the house to be built when they had the cash, I don’t think it is feasible to go back to that again
Yes, I was thinking the same thing Simon. But that’s too difficult, ‘savings takes ages n that’.
Property infatuation = Bogan
Sterling job TBL, right on the money.
Do you honestly think any bank, especially after the GFC, will loan anyone the means to acquire an investment property without
a) equity
b) the means to service the debt?
Really when did you have half a million in cash lying about to invest in property?
Who buys their own home without a home loan? that is predicated on if you can service the debt.
the reason Australian banks are some of the soundest in the world is because they didn’t expose themselves to NINJA or no doc’s loans.
As someone said, it isn’t investment property per se, it is the bogan who believes that it is a get rich quick scheme, who pays $1000 to go to a weekend retreat with some shonk, then, on an income of $60k and a home loan, car loan, a maxed out credit card, and Harvey Norman debt, goes to the bank and is bewildered when they wont loan them 2.5 mill to start their property portfolio of five properties.
There are two types of home owners in Melbourne/Sydney now Frazer- those who bought more than 10 years ago(lower loan too repay) or those who inherited(Fiona) or whose parents have purchased their property for them(wogans).Too suggest that someone could buy real estate in these two cities by savin n stuff is pretty insensitive
I didn’t realise I was being insensitive, the comment wasn’t aimed at people who couldn’t afford to buy a house. Ofcourse people have to borrow large amounts from institutions to buy their first home and in many cases people don’t have a choice when they enter the market. What we are talking about here is people who buy multiple homes and throw everything into the housing market, whilst borrowing against the value of their current home. Furthermore, I’m sure you would agree savings seems to be a foreign concept among many new age bogans.
Understood, the risking it all adage just because your property has had a twenty percent jump in value in the last five years is certainly not a risk i would take for the sake of my family,however i have re-financed my mortgage in the past too finance improvements too my home(not fancy outdoor living areas ect,just extra bdrm/bth for growing population),but i’ve had room too move in my payments and have increased my earnings since,so i see it more as a calculated risk than a grab for riches and have almost got back to where i was originally
I dont have millions in cash lying about to buy investment properties.
Equity is used in business as well as private investment.
Debt is good in investment. More debt means more property which means a better cash flow.
Now if you want to talk a bout servicing that debt, well thats another issue.
Why is housing considered an investment, it is purely a consumption good. What does a house produce? not much apart from the initial building process. An investment that doesn’t produce output or increase output over time, doesn’t seem that attractive. I find it hard to comprehend the infatuation with investment property, it doesn’t increase productivity, bar the building process, or real growth over the long run.
It is not a good investment for the country as too much money is sucked into servicing idle debt and it is not spent on servicing productive debt. The government is very short sighted by encouraging this type of “wealth creation”.
However, it has been a very good investment for the individual. How long it will last depends largely on a) The Chinese economy and b) Government policy – immigration, land release, zoning and how much more money are they dared to pour into this bubble to win votes (FHOG, NG and CG relief).
Frazer,
I’ll keep it simple for you:
Housing = investment, because…..
Any investment potentially has income and capital gain. It doesn’t matter whether you favour one or the other unless you prefer to pay taxes now on the income or taxes later on the gain.
Housing used to live in has potential upside in terms of capital gain without having any income. Housing used as rental property will have income with tenants and possible capital gain over time.
You are also confusing productivity with merely producing goods. Providing housing stock as a rental property is providing a necessary service. Both goods and services make up the GDP of a nation. Takes more than merely turning out widgets to produce wealth in the 21st century.
Real long-run growth is a function of the growth/leverage in technology and the productivity of both capital and labour.
Guess that the bogans are getting wealthier at a faster rate than you?! Man, that must hurt…
I see what you’re saying but I think you’re getting confused with wealth and growth. Yes, long run growth can be attributed to increases in technological progress, which increases the output of labour and capital for a given number of inputs. Wouldn’t gains from technical progress be made during the building phase? It may seem productive to the debtor when built, but it surely it doesn’t create capital, build shops, factories or tools that enhance the productivity of labour. Capital and labour are necessary for growth, although in isolation are not sufficient.
Consumer debt is not self-liquidating and is a lengthy process, consumers pay off the interest and principal, business debt on the other hand can create profits from entreprenurial activity, adding value to the economy, not costs.
It seems that debt fuelled consumption has created ’empty money’, where in fact nothing has been saved. Thus, giving the illusion of growth and good times but in reality hasn’t created any wealth. Merely shifting capital from the productive part of the economy. (quite fitting, bogans always seem to want something for nothing)
Good luck to them if they are getting wealthier, but I feel any large gains in the property market have already passed them by.
By referring to “empty money”, I assume that you are alluding to the possibility of an asset bubble, where the asset grows (unsustainabily) beyond the long-term rate of the economy while the debt is fixed and the owner(s) don’t cash in their chips while the going is good. (In fact, If they did cash in then that “empty money” is real money, even if it’s not necessarily a “productive” use of capital. The term is somewhat prejorative. For example, too much railroad infrastructure in the late nineteenth century can and was an unproductive use of capital: lots of speculators were in the game.)
So I get your point, but this applies to all asset classes, e.g. property, shares, tulips for the historical buffs… I think the psychology of the bogan classes has been richly mined in terms wanting something for nothing.
OMG such delusion 🙂
As much as I hate Bogans, I hate Fiona Of Toorak and her pathetic, endless, one-note shtick more. Thank you for constantly ruining any small pleasure I take in laughing at the Unfortunate Majority of this shithole of a country, with your desperately-unfunny parody of the Social Elite. Your dismal attempt at Satire would seem to belong on ‘Kath and Kim’ – with all the lack of wit and quality that would entail.
Toorak is in Australia – even if you lived there, you might as well be proud of being the highest dung beetle on the poo pile.
Do you ever, just ever, have a thought that you don’t vocalise?
LOL. Yes.
There is a prize for the person who can guess what Fiona is thinking of AB!
pray tell what is the prize? before i expend my megre intellect on the contenscious issue?
Free entry to a wealth creation seminar, learn to invest in property risk free with a guaranteed return. Go for it James.
LOL. Second prize is a date with you, first prize is not having to have a date with you.
dam, i was led to believe that first prize was a date with me and second prize was two date with me. ’cause i always like a loser i was realy excited.
A wild FIONA OF TOORAK appears! ANONYMOUS BOSCH uses STINGING INVECTIVES! It’s not very effective…
LOL. What is that? Some kind of poorly enumeration haiku?
the invective may sting but against the fem fatale of toorak no defence would it be
AB,
Iv’e stopped regularly coming to this site for that very reason.
LOL. YAY! Fiona win!
Fiona, at a guess you know as much of oscar wilde as i know of dr seuss.
LOL. Then, in what will come as a surprise to no one, you’d be wrong.
perhaps TBL could take this money-making theme a bit further and explain:
AMWAY! –shudder–
Bosch doesn’t seem to get Madam Fiona’s irony….poor Bosch 😦
Sounds like you have an inferiority complex perhaps?????
Keep up the good work FOT!! 😛
your admiration is wasted Robbie- those who lick the boots that kick them……………….
now if first prize were to lick fiona’s boots …. wow … think of the ticket sales ??
LOL. P’raps my comments strike a little too close to home?
was that home or bone?
Please don’t feed the troll. He thrives upon that shite.
A great article on the current craze for ink.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/no-thinking-in-the-age-of-inking/story-e6frfhqf-1225830226892
“The weirdest tattooing trend is the penchant for Chinese characters. I’m sure British teen Joanne Raine is not the only one to have been dudded by this latest fad.
Raine had her boyfriend’s nickname, “Roo”, tattooed on her stomach but later found out the Chinese symbols actually meant “supermarket”.”
Any chance she is a bogan?
Roo? Is this another long distance relationship for Nick Riewoldt?
Or Adelaide’s finest – Riccuito. The Tattooist obviously has a huge sense of humor with the supermarket bit.
if she realy had “supermarket ” on her tummy then maybe she was just advertizing ?
Having a rudimentary understanding of “chinese” (referring to the written text which is generic, not the spoken languages) I wonder how many people look up their chosen words in google, perhaps not realising that the same/similar “pinyin” leads to characters which in fact mean completely different things depending on pronunciation.
Or the tattooist could be deliberatly stitching up the round-eye, either outcome is funny.
Paige’s Supermarket – Fresh meat everyday.
I just thought of a new topic. Mary Kay cosmetics… the organisation that makes it possible for stay home bogan baby factories to make a living with minimal effort, that is until the bubble bursts and they have noone to sell to cus all the other bogan stay home baby factories that buy the shit, have become “consultants” themselves. However it’s all good cause daddy bogan is makin’ “hunge fitty grend droivin trucks out da moines mayte”
Can’t say I fully agree witht his one.
I worked in Property Management briefly as an Office Assistant doing the files. Most multiple property owners aren’t bogans. They tend to be the sort a bogan, nouveau or not, would struggle to believe can even own property in Australia, let alone live here.
The bogue, more likely aspires to property investment, as – having no grasp of stocks or futures or other forms of investment – they see it as a sign that they have well and truly “arrived”.
Dodgy renovation and pointless tree-in-yard chopping though? Bogans are all over that.
Wathcing the comments fly on this site is better than the original article. Takes an ironic look at Boganesque behaviours, yet the commentators that believe they know better flout their own ignorance of matters beyond them.
Going by most of the comments on this site I’d say the majority of people couldn’t articulate why equities are better than property beyond taking the arbitary 10, 20 or 30 year slice of stock market history and making the bland comparison with same timeline for property. Probably wouldn’t even know to ask if the mix included both commercial property and residential property. And risk for return? WTF is that you say? What happened – did you all take an Arts degree?
p.s. I’d laugh if ‘Fiona of Toorak’ revealed herself to be ‘Frank of Toorak’. Some of you guys need to get a paying job and a life. Sadly, flirting with a nom de plume is no way to live, boys.
Interesting contribution, DP. You’re part way through an employer-sponsored MBA, judging by the upper-intermediate language, and burgeoning self-confidence in talking shop. TBL
are you suggesting that fiona is a shemale?? definetly fooled me.
It appears that DP is in pretty deep 🙂
Come back, DP! You haven’t accused us of being latte-sippers yet!
Too much credit TBL.
His comments suggest that he is too far down the yellow brick road to property development millions. The key is in his “Probably wouldn’t even know to ask if the mix included both commercial property and residential property” line….”that’s diversification mayte”.
It is not “burgeoning self-confidence in talking shop”. It is bogan style arrogance and agressiveness.
No – DP is either a real estate agent, a mortgage broker, a bogan property “tycoon” or a low grade financial advisor (conman).
Sorry Sam,
The answer is god no, please no, no and no *eyes rolling*, yet again. You could say that “conman” is synonomous with all of those occupations. TBL’s comments are more perceptive, but not quite there.
I confess – too aggressive by half. One of my failings. Though I believe that we’ll be having a Venn-discussion of does a bogan have an exclusive lock on the display of arrogance and aggressiveness. Going by the discourse so far I’d hazard a guess that arrogance is pretty wide-spread.
Bec,
I like lattes. I just don’t get to enjoy them in inner-suburbarn cafes as much as I’d like to.
You do realise DP, that stringing together a large quantity of unrelated industry specific jargon does not make you appear any more enlightened than James Hunter’s misspelt ramblings, don’t you? Anyway, I’ll have one latte thankyou, before you knock off at the cafe and skip off to uni.
LOL. He’s probably “studying” at La Trobe. *snicker*
Unfortunately South Yarra has no universities.
does too rack have one?
I had to dumb it down. Not worth spending the time or the comment box space to run a complete explanation. Besides You guys can Google for more detail. I’m not searching for enlightenment here, only entertainment.
Really, you HAD to dumb it down for us? Well, word-smithery aside, I’m not sure what you’ve graced us with is particularly relevant to the subject, it looks more like a long winded version of ‘youse cunts are a buncha farking arrogant uni wankas’.
Lets face it, the few of us on here who have invested wisely, and those who have struggled to finance our own homes by working and saving, have every right to point and laugh at the shear arrogance of the bogans we deride here. These are the people who push property prices to the point of unaffordability, fuel the credit crisis, increase inlation, by their own selfish actions. If we didn’t laugh, we’d cry. None of us have (I assume) or require a tertiary education in property investment, because we’re smart enough to have invested wisely by using commonsense.
good call
If anyone wants to know why we realy will “all be rooned” then i suggest you read “The Black Swan” by Nassim Nicholas Taleb
DP may want to commit Hari Kiri bythe time hes finished it
and Fiona may well economically speaking “go to the mattresses”
“The Black Swan” seriously does go a long way to explaining the uslessness of people with economic degrees. They are after all the only people who can complete a degree without studying facts !! They only study failed theories ! Engineers like myself are a little more aware of the need to take empirical evidence a little more seriously.
James, I understood every word of that. Are feeling ok?
simon, well to be honest………….
being totally sensible is a draining experience !!
something that maybe should only be done under parental supervision … lol ( with appologies to fiona)
You are a man of many colours James (although hopefully not fake tan orange). I’m sure Fiona won’t mind you appropriating her call sign, you two being close and all. LOL.
LOL. Fail. I DO mind.
Doh, I feel like a naughty school kid who got caught smoking behind the bike shed.
is that where you met fiona?
No, Fiona would have been hanging out with the cool kids, in fact she probably was school captain.
LOL. We had no such position at my European finishing school.
Now I imagine Tom Brown’s School Days but with girls. Did you have your own fag to do the menial chores and beat mercilessly?
LOL. Engineers like you, who built the frameworks in the World Trade Centre Towers, the Westgate Bridge, etc. Black Swan yourself, lush!
we also design use full things for real people like kitchen stoves and dishwashers ans toys for the lesiure class like vibrators and ,, hush my mouth, very large 4X4s. cant say i ever worked on break cables though but be a good to check the cable on your Yaris??
simon fiona had no luck with the private fags,, the private school girls take soooooo long to train as the “yes Mistress, No Mistress” does not come easily to them
What the have to do is import some regular state school girls who do it for filthy lucre !!
a little thought for you fiona and for DP:
the pyramids were i suspect designed by engineers and not by economists ??
James Hunter you are living proof of the difference between monkeys and men. A monkey can read a book; the only problem is that he doesn’t understand it.
Read it, understood it, attended some conferences that discussed the nuances of the GFC. You dolt – it was empirical financial risk models that failed (amongst other problems). The probablity of failure was low, but not zero. (All this happened along with a lot of other macroeconomic and microeconomic problems, including – but not limited to – an imbalance of global savings, overuse of corporate derivatives, off-balance sheet corporate activities, poor securitization of risky loans, use of short-term debt to finance long-term investments, etc.)
I’d think about getting another job – engineering actually needs brighter people.
dp. two things,
one engineers also study statistics
two,the real and only cause of the Global Financial Meltdown was uncontrolled capitalist greed.
in a democracy it is almost impossible to controll the banks and financiers(sic) by rational appeal.
the only answere is nationalization !
That word realy makes them come up with even more improbable bullshit designed to protect their balance sheets. God help the people of the world ’cause no one else can
I’m well acquainted with the content of an engineering course. This means you should be basing any conclusions upon evidence and context. I respond with specifics; you give me polemics. I’m letting you know that for all your sense of superiority over bogans (or anybody else), you are in fact as ignorant as they are. The problem is: you are in denial.
A bogan would absolutely love what you wrote. That’s good populist street-speak. Ring ACA now; they’re waiting for your call.
you of the economics ilk critise polemics and I suppose semantics and yet your very existance as an economist has no factual base. to assume that your truth is the only truth is the sign of either an uneducated mind or a deluded one.could be someone who has not thrown off the shakles of parental imprinting who has yet to go into the real world.
Sorry James Hunter, I baited you too much. I concede your point on parental imprinting and withdraw.
Dp I hope i did not offend, my repatee usually arrives before me !
you are not only a scholar but a gentleman .
LOL. It was empirical financial risk models that failed was it? I think you should stay away from engineering, with smarts like yours you could be dangerous in that profession.
Are we making too much of a strong link between bogan and socio-economic status? Are we sure we truly know the tax-bracket bogans sit? You only have to look at the average NRL footballer or mine operator to break that stereotype. Bogan is a style and a set of behaviours. It isn’t a tax-bracket, nor an income. We’re all at risk of sounding somewhat snobbish.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/entertainment/sydney-confidential/gallery-e6frex89-1225830187690?page=10
Hard to know where to start with this photo.
Ahhh….a life ahead….. Mr Leverage Man….now the “owner” of two investment properties…and about $600k ..plus interest to pay ….that’s about $1.1 million for those two dog boxes in the middle of Sydney. “Renovators Delight” I think he said….thank God..only another 25yrs to go….
Ah….a life ahead….. locked in…can’t leave this shit-boring job and the incessant office bullying and harassment…only 25yrs to go..vegemite sandwiches and water for lunch…not so bad….Macca’s on Saturdays..cool as..
Holy Shit…does Harvey Norman sell cars ? or sneakers ? or vegemite ?…holy shit.
“This is an important reason why it loves purchasing investment properties; so it can tell someone what to do, restrict their movements, and have someone feel obliged to them.”
Firstly, this isn’t true – rights of possession over land in Australia are far more extensive that rights of ownership. This is why it’s so difficult to get a defaulting tenant out.
Notwithstanding this, bogans *could* still love IPs because of the imagined sense of power – however, it’s far more likely that they just want a peice of the “get rich quick” scheme.
Negatively geared investment property is a bogan term in itself – there is no such thing as a “negatively geared” investment. You can either be highly geared (leveraged) or not – negative deosn’t make sense in this context.
What it is attempting to describe is an investment that triggers a tax loss – they *should* refer to it as “negative cashflow investment property”. Of course that doesn’t sound anywhere near as appealing (and would tip people off to what it actually involves).
Finally, the one thing bogans love more than investment properties is, complaining about how “greedy investors” are driving up property prices and preventing them from owning their own homes.
Owning their own investment homes, you mean. TBL
“a home theatre system the size of Barnaby Joyce’s economic incompetence.”
There should be a post on Barnaby Joyce. Failing that, politicians more generally, esp. Pauline Hanson and Wilson Tuckey.
what about mr “channel 7 sunrise/faux tv celeb” joe hockey
LOL. Don’t you mean “Kochie”?
isn’t the term” kochie koo” ?
Bogans do love Kochie. And talkback radio that reaffirms their own views, and today tonight/ACA.
And posting on news.com.
Surely news.com user generated content deserves a blog posting. Property market, bank interest rates, executive remuneration, oh the humanity.
excusing some aliteration you could finish that comment with “and some humility”??
By comparison, the rest of the front bench makes joe look like a genius.
Oh gosh this is a little close to the bone! My dad and I are planning to develop a property he owns in the western suburbs of Perth. The land alone is worth a lot of money so we are plannning to knock down the old rambling house and build again hopefully making a profit (which we are pretty much guarenteed in the current market).
I thought the bogans problem with property is that they purchase the best house in the worst suburb, not the worst house in the best suburb?
Personally, I love property and I am going to have a great time developing the one mentioned above. Looks like there is a little bogue in me after all!!
hahah
Bogans love botox! They also love anything to do with face-lifts, collagen injections, hair replacements, boobjobs and getting the fat sucked out of their arses and plastered on their faces.
The see the celebrities doing it and, well, if it’s good enough for Jennifer Aniston, it must be good enough for them.
The older bogan believes they need botox, just like people in Haiti need clean drinking water.
Please do a column about the bogan love of botox.
Plenty of Chinese drug money has replaced bogan property investing.
Whoa, hold on there hoss – “plenty of Chinese drug money”. Are you bogan? Have they crowded you out of the market? Where the hell were you when TBL ran Border Security as a topic?
Happy with the foreign investment policy as it is DP?
No, as a matter of fact. Waiting for the AUD to drop in value and then I can buy more assets. Preferably yours at a discount.
You must have been waiting a while DP, it just seems to keep going the wrong way doesn’t it mate? It must suck having your cash parked OS earning 0.1% per annum and depreciating daily against the AUD.
Keep waiting pal. The value of paper money approaches zero as time approaches infinity. Just rememeber that the entire global financial system relies on this fact.
wait til the housing industry implodes, taking the big 4 banks with it. Commonwealth owns Colonial First State, which has Mortgage Backed Securities that were sold off to all the old dears, and the funds have been frozen for 2 years now. Replace ‘frozen’ with ‘insolvent’, and you have a company trading with full government(RBA) knowledge and backing that can’t pay its bond holders what it promised.
This is in addition to the $30 trillion or so in off sheet finance the banks have.
scary.
I believe “Cogans” is the correct term- Cashed up bogans. Some Cogan facts:
Opinions: None of their own;
Current residence: Many found in Brighton, Toorak, Prahran (raised elsewhere);
Higher Education: Latrobe;
Perspective: Limited at best – within previous 5 years, or next 5 years;
Cars/drive: BMW X-5, Porsche Cayenne, Audi etc (anything Euro);
Interests: Buy 1property, subdivide it & call themselves developers;
Terms used: Time share, Negatively Geared, G.F.C. (what?!), alfresco etc;
Terms misunderstood: Oxymoron, irony, investment, (all the terms above).
Some Laws for Cogans:
– A Cogan can become a millionaire, yet cannot spell or enunciate words;
– Cogans will struggle to converse in English correctly, yet they hope to make up for this by learning a few words in a foreign language (i.e., menus);
– A Cogan will profess their knowledge of all things “relevant”, and mock those that don’t agree (with what they have heard, or the social norm);
– The Cogan only has one way to do everything, and don’t see other peoples successful and different investment approaches as being relevant;
– Cogans will reply and reply until they are red with anger to win an anonymous internet argument (copying wikipedia articles frantically).
Money can’t buy class, and it never will with this Bogan offshoot.